I've come up with a character concept I really like. He's a dwarf whose entire clan/family was wiped out and he is the last of his bloodline. Thing is, he is selfish (with stuff like Treasure Sense and Greed) and just looks out for himself. He doesn't care that he is the last. Turns out his deceased family is determined to continue despite him so they pretty much haunt him to make sure he survives and continues the family line. He is an Ancestor Oracle with the haunted curse.
He'll use these revelations: Wisdom of the Ancients, and Spirit of the Warrior (Consult his dead ancestors and let the battle-hardy ones possess him in battle.)
He'll use spells like: Ancestral Memory, Ancestral Communion (Consult his family out of battle for knowledge)
He'll also use spells like: Summon Ancestral Guardian, Ancestral Gift, Spiritual Weapon, and Spiritual Ally (Summon his ancestors to fight for him as well as his aunt's old frying pan to smack his enemies!) Maybe even Summon Monster I to summon his family dog.
But... I don't know what to do with him past that. Do I make him melee or ranged? While I know he already isn't optimized being a dwarf oracle I'd like him to be an actually decent character. I don't really want him to be support, although I'll probably take stuff like Blessing of Fervor just because it is so good. Save or Suck spells are a tough route because of his negative to charisma from Dwarf.
At first I considered the Spirit Guide archetype to get him channel energy and life link... but I think he'd be too selfish for that and I don't want him to be support. (Plus I don't know what to do with the familiar on this guy. Maybe be Mushu from Mulan?)
Next I considered giving him a crossbow (he'd sit back and protect himself while the ancestors and party took the hits). I was hoping to give him a whole bunch of spell-like weapon attacks like Barbed Chains and Holy Ice but there are just not enough of those that are any good.
I also considered somehow buffing his combat maneuvers so that stuff like Toppling spell, Pilfering Hand, Barbed Chains and Telekinesis would actually be good but I couldn't figure out a way to do that.
So... any ideas? I've got the character concept, class, and a few spells/revelations but I can't figure out how to make him a worthy character past that. I'd love to hear your ideas!
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Just to throw out an alternate idea: you could make a Speaker for the Past Shaman, which would align better with the dwarven racial stat modifiers. You'd get access to the Ancestor revelations (along with the Time revelations), but you wouldn't get the Haunted curse. You'd still have access to Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Ally, and you could summon the dog with Summon Nature's Ally. You could memorize your spells by communing with your ancestors (and have them give you unsolicited advice).
A shaman is better than an oracle with spiritual ally/weapon if you take the spiritual guardian feat. PCScipio's idea would help.
There's nothing stopping you taking the usual trip feats to improve toppling spell etc. Dirty fighting, improved trip and fury's fall would help and you might occasionally use them in melee too. Expensive without bonus feats I admit.
If you want to remain the oracle then buffing others or self-buffing and using weapons is the best way to make use of the spellcasting with a Cha penalty. There's plenty of buffs on the cleric spell list.
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Great concept! Here's a Shaman Guide that has lots of helpful suggestions. One effective approach is to do everything you discussed, have 14+ Strength, and also carry a reach weapon. You cast a spell, or do whatever, with your Standard Action, and you inflict melee damage with AoOs during the GM's turn. You lose out on a shield, but your reach screen can provide greater defensive value than a shield and also protects your allies. Teams with a reach screen tend to perform better than teams lacking one.
The shaman idea is a good one, but after taking a look at it I think I'm going to stick with Oracle even though it probably isn't optimal. It runs with my character idea too well.
I might strongly consider a reach weapon with the tripping feats. The dwarves look like they have some decent ones.
Think some kind of casting/range build could work? I would prefer it over a melee build but I have no idea how'd it be competitive.
You want to focus on missile weapon use on a dwarf ancestor oracle? It's not impossible but it's going to be tight on feats and stats; tripping is mostly out and it won't come together fast. How do you feel about the warsighted archetype?
General feats like martial weapon proficiency (long bow) - retrain to deadly aim if/when you can get proficiency via an ioun stone, point blank shot, precise shot, encouraging spell, manyshot, quicken spell will take you to level 11. Martial flexibility can pick up a feat early or rapid shot or dedicated adversary, or clustered shots to beat DR. If you're going to insist on using a crossbow it will be slightly less effective.
If you want to focus on non-buff, attack spellcasting as an oracle with a charisma penalty you need to spend some feats, which works against making you a good archer. Persistent spell is the most effective way to boost spell saves; you could fit it into an archery build with only a little hurt. Making tripping with spells useful means mostly giving up archery.
I have a similar character designed: a blacksmith whose family was wiped out while he was off enjoying a tryst. I started the character as an experiment and was pleasantly surprised with how well it came together in only a few levels. I made him an improvised weapon user by taking one level of makeshift scrapper Urogue to get all the feats needed to start effectively hit things with improvised weapons right away and going oracle from there. He’s a selfish man also so I focused on mainly buff spells for myself—easy to do with the oracle spell list. While he can bash enemies with anything he can pick up and/or throw, his preferred “weapon” is a lucky horseshoe that he carries at all times. Between the martial flexibility feats from war-sighted (these have to be activated) and the shikigami style feats he’s +15 to strike for 3d6+13dmg with heroism and divine favour at level 7 with a few additional tricks up his sleeve yet.
My main concerns about recommending such a character to you are that we are currently level 7 so I don’t know how it will play through the lower levels—not sure what level you’re starting from—and the AC is not great for someone planning to stand in melee. He does have access to spells like shield of faith and ironskin that are not accounted for below and he can heal, so maybe not as bad as it seems at first blush. This character also has one more feat than normal as we get to pick an extra from a limited list as a houserule—in this case, it’s toughness.
Rafa Ferrer
Male human oracle (warsighted) 6/unchained rogue (makeshift scrapper) 1 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Melee Tactics Toolbox 15, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 106, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 42, Pathfinder Unchained 20)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 shield)
hp 72 (7d8+34)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +10; -2 vs. distraction ability of swarms, and mind-affecting effects
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee lucky horseshoe +15 (3d6+13)
Special Attacks martial flexibility 6/day, sneak attack (unchained) +1d6
Oracle (Warsighted) Spells Known (CL 6th; concentration +7)
3rd (4/day)—channel vigor, cure serious wounds, heroism
2nd (6/day)—cure moderate wounds, levitate, minor image (DC 15), ironskin, spiritual weapon, weapon of awe[APG] (DC 15)
1st (7/day)—cure light wounds, divine favor, liberating command[UC], protection from evil, shield of faith, unseen servant
0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 13), light, mage hand, mending, read magic, spark[APG] (DC 13), stabilize
Mystery Ancestor
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16
Base Atk +4; CMB +16; CMD 20
Feats Catch Off-guard, Great Fortitude, Improvised Defenses, Power Attack, Shikigami Manipulation, Shikigami Mimicry, Shikigami Style, Throw Anything, Toughness, Weapon Finesse
Traits fate's favored, hermean paragon (steaming sea), surprise weapon
Skills Acrobatics +4, Appraise +2, Bluff +13, Climb +6, Craft (blacksmith) +8, Diplomacy +14, Disguise +5, Escape Artist +4, Fly +4, Heal +3, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (local) +12, Perception +13, Ride +4, Sense Motive +3, Stealth +14, Survival +3, Swim +6, Use Magic Device +14
Languages Common
SQ haunting regret, improvised weapons, oracle's curse (haunted), revelation (spirit shield[UM])
Other Gear lucky horseshoe, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of physical might +2 (Str, Con), headband of alluring charisma +2, lucky horseshoe[OA], masterwork blacksmithing tools
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Special Abilities
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Catch Off-Guard Proficient with improvised melee weapons. Unarmed foe is flat-footed against your improvised weapons.
Haunted Retrieving stored gear is a Standard action or worse, dropped items land 10' away.
Haunting Regret -2 vs. swarm distraction, mind-affecting effects, and on concentration checks.
Improvised Defenses +1 shield bonus to AC when you are wielding an improvised weapon and have your other hand free.
Improvised Weapons (Ex) Gain Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything as bonus feats.
Martial Flexibility (move action, 6/day) (Ex) As a Move action, gain a combat feat for 1 min. More gained for greater actions.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shikigami Manipulation Magical item used as imp wpn grants enh bon equal to the item’s CL/4 (min +1, max +5).
Shikigami Mimicry (- custom / magic weapon -, Blocking) -2 atk to imp wpn gain blocking, brace, disarm, distracting, nonlethal, performance, or trip until next turn.
Shikigami Style Deal dmg with imp wpn as if 1 sz cat larger. Other feats with this style as prereq +1 sz cat (max 3).
Sneak Attack (Unchained) +1d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Spirit Shield +4 (6 hours/day) (Su) Spirits of ancestors grant armor bonus.
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.
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Warsighted... yeah I can see that really helping in the feat department here. Shame that I wouldn't get Spirit of the Warrior at 11. Unless of course I somehow took extra revelation at that level (I'd hate to delay Quicken Spell though).
I plan on using Ancestral Gift for my weapon once I can cast it so proficiency shouldn't be too big of an issue (so I can retrain like you mentioned). Why would crossbow be worse? Just because I'd need reloading feats?
Say I just took a crossbow/bow for fun and focused solely on attacking with spells and making tripping with spells actually work. How would that look? What kind of spells would I even use?
Also, thanks for the great advice so far!
Pretty cool character born_of_fire! I actually just finished a campaign as an improved weapon wielding Skald. Ton of fun, but I'll probably stay away from it this round. I like the blacksmith angle too.
How do you like Spirit Shield? Doesn't really seem worth it to me until higher levels. It does save money on buying armor though.
Pretty cool character born_of_fire! I actually just finished a campaign as an improved weapon wielding Skald. Ton of fun, but I'll probably stay away from it this round. I like the blacksmith angle too.
How do you like Spirit Shield? Doesn't really seem worth it to me until higher levels. It does save money on buying armor though.
I’m not sure as this is a back up character. I really like the idea of the guy going around looking like a regular blacksmith, no armour or apparent weapon so it’s a flavour choice that I’m hoping won’t hurt too much.
Ancestral gift means your bow is well below par, and also you have to spend a standard action in or just before combat to create it. Given you're warsighted and don't have a lot of revelations you might drop it.
Using a light crossbow means time to reload unless you spend a feat changing that, and less damage, and if you ever fight at great range you'll be at a disadvantage. OTOH at high level you can afford a crossbow which boosts spellcasting, the mage's crossbow.
If archery's for fun you can just get PBS and precise shot as spells use these too. Dirty fighting and improved trip give something for martial flex to build on. Fury's fall and/or dedicated adversay both work there. Toppling spell gives your non-telekinesis spells an excuse to start tripping, or if you don't start ranged tripping until telekinesis is online you could get persistent spell for other spells. Quicken spell + sure casting or quicken + divine favor helps many things work.
You're going to need a minimum 14 charisma initially (16-2 race) and on a 20 point buy the caster variant might take Str 10, 16 dex, 14+2=16 Con, 10 Int, 10+2 race=12 Wis for your other stats. You can drop Str and/or Int to 8 if desired (Str 9 Int 8 would let you start with Cha 15), or you could drop dex to 14 and raise str to 14 to keep a melee option. Level ups go to Cha and don't forget cha headbands and dex belts.
If you do get toppling spell, especially if you get it at level 5 or so, then you might pick admonishing ray as a spell. Attacking touch AC means it's more likely to work right now than spiritual weapon which works over time. Righteous might lets you trip larger monsters assuming your bonus is high enough; toppling spells don't seem to have an exclusion from the size difference limit.
So if I got the Toppling Spell route, which I'd really like to, how effective would it actually be?
I'd be getting Caster Level + Charisma Modifier + Tripping feat bonuses. Say at lvl 11 with a +4 headband I'd be around +18.
Am I missing any bonuses here? Does Divine Favor add somehow? Are there other feats I could conjure up with Warsighted to add to this? I know a lot of things have some pretty serious CMDs out there, especially at that level.
Thing which apply to trip attempts definitely apply. General attack bonuses likely don't because this is not a CMB based on an attack roll. On the other hand things which say they add to CMB probably should work.
Fury's fall adds Dex to your trip CMB, and you can martial flex that up easily. With a +2 belt that's probably +4 to your CMB, total +22. At that level you could also flex up greater trip for another +2, total +24.
If you can render your enemy entangled, stunned, fatigued, exhausted or blinded - or yourself invisible, or hidden by darkness, fog or stealth - various penalties to AC/CMD apply. (Greater) stunning barrier might be a spell to get. Likewise ashen path and some fog spell.
Bloodsworn retribution (a spell which you can pick up next level) can add another +5 morale bonus to 'all checks' so long as they're related to your vengeance, for a long duration. You can get it if you worship Torag or the dwarven god of grudges, Drangvitt.
Something to clarify with your GM - if a toppling spell damages an an enemy three times in a round does it make one trip attempt or three? This matters for admonishing ray and there's disagreement about wjat the feat says.