Kinetic Knight - Shroud of Water questions!

[Marshall Jansen]

My Kineticist just hit 4th level and I'm confused by Elemental Bastion/Shroud of Water - this is exacerbated by the fact that HeroLab seems weird.

Here's the situation - I have the following AC:
+10 (+1 Full Plate)
+1 (Dexterity)
+3 (+1 Heavy Shield)

for an AC of 24.

I feel like if I spend one point of burn, I should be able to increase my AC to 25 by adding a +1 Shield *or* Armor enhancement to either of my items, taking them to a +2 equivalent. However, HeroLab doesn't seem to want this to be the case.

If I change my shield to a normal shield, however, I can then add a +1 Shield Bonus to it with a point of burn spent for Shroud of Water?

So, is there a reason that Shroud of Water at level 4 doesn't seem to boost me when I'm wearing a magic shield and armor, or is that a Hero Lab bug?

Also, does Shroud of Water need me to spend burn to power it, or does it only care about my current burn, like Elemental Overflow? And finally, how long does the boost to AC last? I assume it is until the burn is removed?

Sorry if this has been answered before, a search failed to help me with this specific area!

[pocsaclypse]

it sounds like hero labs may be calculating the bonus from shroud of water as an enhancement bonus and therefore not applying the bonus on top of the shield/armors existing enhancement bonus since they dont stack.

the base shroud of water increase doesnt require you to take burn, but increasing the bonus that requires you to accept burn specifically to increase the bonus and it lasts until burn is removed.

[Bloodrealm]

I'd say this is another of Hero Lab's numerous errors.

[Isabelle Lee]

So let's see here...

Marshall Jansen wrote:

So, is there a reason that Shroud of Water at level 4 doesn't seem to boost me when I'm wearing a magic shield and armor, or is that a Hero Lab bug?

Hero Lab error. Per the text, you're "increasing" the relevant enhancement bonus, not adding a new one. I recommend using a Hero Lab spell adjustment to add the effects of magic vestment to your character with the new total enhancement bonus.

Marshall Jansen wrote:

Also, does Shroud of Water need me to spend burn to power it, or does it only care about my current burn, like Elemental Overflow? And finally, how long does the boost to AC last? I assume it is until the burn is removed?

You must spend burn to increase the effects (though this is an excellent way to fuel your elemental overflow!) Much like the regular shroud of water effect, it lasts until your burn is removed.

Marshall Jansen wrote:

Sorry if this has been answered before, a search failed to help me with this specific area!

Always happy to help! ^_^

[Marshall Jansen]

Awesome... so if I have this correct, I think this is the way things work:

If I'm wearing +1 Full plate, 12 dex and a +1 light shield my AC is 23.
Elemental Bastion/Shroud of Water as a Kinetic Knigh I can add a +2 shield bonus which takes my light shield from +1 Shield/+1 Enhancement to +2.shield and +1 Enhancement, giving me a 24 AC?

And if I used a heavy shield, for a +2 shield bonus, I'd start with a 24 and not change, since Shroud of Water won't go over +2 shield bonus as base - but it gives me an advantage in a lesser ACP.

Then, every point of burn I spend on Shroud will increase my Enhancement bonus - at this level, to a maximum of +1 on top of the +2 shield bonus.

I 4 levels (8, for a kinetic knight instead of 6) my shield bonus goes to +3 (which would take either a light or heavy shield to a +3 shield bonus. And I could still spend 1 point of burn to add +1 enhancement

At 12 level, the shield bonus goes to +4 and I can spend up to 2 burn to add +2 enhancement (to a maximum of +5 totla) etc etc?

I think I've got it but thought I'd post here to make sure :)

[Temperans]

Last time I checked you dont mix enchantment bonuses. So with a light shield you would get a +2 either way, by spending 1 burn, the shield would become a +3.

I dont think the ACP would get lowered either.

[Marshall Jansen]

Hi Temperans!

Basically, i was saying that Shroud of Water/Elemental Bastion will give me +2 shield bonus with a light shield or a heavy shield, and since a heavy shield is already a +2 shield bonus, I should use a light shield for a slightly lesser ACP as my AC is the same either way.

I think.

[Temperans]

Hello to you as well,

I was commenting on the part where you listed the light shield going from +1 shield +1 enchantment to +2 shield +1 enchanment; And, since you didn't mention burn until later, it appeared as if you were adding the light shield enchantment to the Shroud of Water shield bonus.

I do see what you mean about the light shield ACP thou.

[Marshall Jansen]

I reported the bug to Hero Lab/Lone Wolf development, and they said they would add it to their change log.

I'm pretty sure I grok it now, though, and can do spell adjustments to manage what the number should really be.

[Marshall Jansen]

I have another question! Does a Kinetic Knight's Shroud of Water improve at level 6 (as stated for a default kineticist) or level 8 (because Kinetic Knight has late entry to Shroud?)

I ask again because Hero Lab gives me the bonus at level 6 and I assumed I wouldn't get it until level 8.

[Syries]

Nope, you get the increase at level 6. Just because you get an ability delayed due to an archetype does not mean your progression changes for that ability, unless specifically stated otherwise (see the myriad of druid archetypes which delays wild shape- they specifically state that you gain wild shape at (typically) druid level-2)

[Marshall Jansen]

Thank you!