Telekineticist: Foe Throw weight limit?

[tchrman35]

When a telekineticist uses Foe Throw, is she subject to the weight limits of Telekinetic Blast?

Ability links:
Telekinetic Blast
Telekinetic Haul
Foe Throw

Arguments in favor:

Foe Throw begins with the text "Your telekinetic blast..." then modifies what Telekinetic Blast does. It is also an infusion, and the conceit of infusions is they they modify your base blast ability. At no point does it state that it changes the weight limit.

Telekinetic Haul increases your weight limit sufficiently that at level 6 (the earliest one could take Foe Throw) you should be able to throw most medium-sized creatures.

(Circumstantial at best) Without a weight limit, a kineticist may throw a huge or larger creature (on a failed save, which is unlikely for most huge+ creatures) by accepting a single extra point of burn. This burn can be decreased with infusion specialization as any other infusion.

Arguments against:

Foe Throw does not list a weight limit, and telekinetic blast is not capitalized, indicating flavor text rather than rules text.

Most stat blocks do not list a creature's weight. This leaves it entirely in the hands of the GM.

The Foe Throw ability does not list Telekinetic Haul as a prerequisite, but without it, if the weight limit applies, FT is basically useless.

The verbiage describing a weight limit directly modifies "object", so when Foe Throw replaces "object" it takes the adjective clause with it.

After a Facebook discussion on the subject devolved into "you're wrong and a dumb#@& because your disagree with me" I thought I'd bring it here (where we have such a reputation for cool heads? Lol.) No, where maybe we can get a devs attention or a FAQ ruling if it feels enough people disagree.

Please discuss! Also, if no clear rules answer from the text or a developer becomes evident, please FAQ. Thanks!

[GeneticDrift]

Did you port the kineticist to starfinder? I think you posted in the wrong forum.

[tchrman35]

Oops...

Flagging. That's what I get for posting before coffee!

[Damian West]

Wrong forum, but as to the subject.
I think that the fact that Telekinetic Haul isn't a prerequisite for Foe Throw is pretty telling for the intent. Without it, then Foe Throw would only be able to throw 30 lbs. worth of creature at 6th level (when it could first be picked up). So someone couldn't throw a halfling that had a big lunch let along a medium or large size creature with armor and a weapon. It would be a dead in the water ability from the start and most of play. So I think the RAW and RAI make sense.

I think the 3rd point "for" just sounds more like someone not liking the ability existing than an argument for.

Foe Throw modifies the base of the blast and changes the peramiters from one of weight to one of size for ease of play. This prevents the PC every time they want to throw someone from becoming a "Guess your Weight" carnival game runner. (Haha) And prevents a random unknown plus a save from maybe stopping the use of the ability.

[Sam Phelan]

Moved to Pathfinder Rules Questions

[Meirril]

If foe throw was going to be limited by weight, it would say it was. What it says is it is limited by the size of the opponent.

'Your telekinetic blast can throw a Large or smaller creature instead of an unattended object; you can increase the burn cost by 1 to affect a creature of a larger size.'

Which means yes, you can try to throw a gargantuan creature for 1 burn. There is nothing about weight in its description, and there is no prerequisite to take Foe Throw so I don't see why anyone would try to enforce a limit that isn't described in this ability or in telekinetic blast which this is based on.

And if you insist on using the weight limits of Telekinetic Blast that means a 20th level Kineticist would be able to throw a 100 pound creature. Just how many 100 pound large sized creatures are there? Most medium creatures are heavier than that. I don't think the designers of Occult Adventures decided to give you an ability to take a point of burn to do nothing. Just go with the description as is in Foe Throw.

Just one thing to note since it is interesting. You can opt to do either the telekinetic blast's normal damage or you can 'loosen the strands' and do damage typical of the Kineticist throwing an improvised one handed weapon plus con mod. So for medium sized that would be 1d6+con. I've often thought about throwing party members and intentionally missing as a sort of teleport.

[Melkiador]

It’s limited by creature size and not weight.