Witch using Spirit Talker / Bad Penny / Beguiling Gift


Rules Questions


Howdy Folks,
Was just looking into a Invoker/Harrower lev 6 witch build and stumbled across the feat "Spirit Talker". This says you basically get a Hex from a Spirit for an hour... so can I choose "Bad Penny" from the Slums Spirit, curse a coin and then cast "Beguiling Gift" to make an enemy have -2 to saves as long as they keep hold of it? Seems like a good way to get an enemy at -2 for a whole combat if legal.

Also if I cursed a coin, and the hex ran out after an hour, would the coin stay cursed? I am thinking yes, as the witch would just lose the ability to use bad penny, not the curse itself?

Thanks in advance.


So if your target fails the Will save on Beguiling Gift, drops a weapon to accept the Bad Penny... what is the appropriate action for a coin on the target's next turn?

Would your target be compelled to stash it with their other coins, or just drop it and pick up their weapon?


Its a good question...Which I cannot answer.So are you implying the outcome is down to the DM and there is no clear path here?


It works, provided the mark doesn't get suspicious after watching someone cast a spell at them, then feeling compelled to accept a coin from said person and shove said coin into their money pouch. After one round, the mark is free to do whatever they want with the coin. Some marks might just keep it, while more suspicious types might throw it away. If you're already in combat, the best one might hope for is a round of penalties and ruining their action economy for up to two rounds (one round to pocket the coin, one after the spell runs out to pull the coin back out and toss it).

Scarab Sages

Beguiling gift offers two options for objects. They must be consumed or donned - as appropriate for the object.

I'd say neither option would be appropriate for a penny.

But wait! All is not lost! Don't offer the target a penny.

Offer the target a bite-sized muffin that just so happens to have a penny baked inside of it. And maybe a dose of poison? Poison Steep hex is a thing. You might be able to lace it with drugs as well - dm dependent. Also, at higher levels eternal slumber is another hex you could tack onto it - though you're looking at more prep time.

There are probably a number of other just terrible things you could do to that bite-sized muffin to penalize and debuff your target. If you're going to spend the time to do it, make it do more.


All good points, thank you. The spell seems like an entertaining ploy to manipulate.


Beguiling Gift wrote:

You offer an object to an adjacent creature, and entice it into using or consuming the proffered item. If the target fails its Will save, it immediately takes the offered object, dropping an already held object if necessary. On its next turn, it consumes or dons the object, as appropriate for the item in question. For example, an apple would be eaten, a potion consumed, a ring put on a finger, and a sword wielded in a free hand. If the target is physically unable to accept the object, the spell fails. The subject is under no obligation to continue consuming or using the item once the spell’s duration has expired, although it may find a cursed item difficult to be rid of.

Tbh, this is GM fiat territory. I personally would do something funny based on the target's intelligence, a high int target might take the coin, realize that it's cursed, and throw it back at the player once the spell finishes, a low int target might chomp on it a couple times before ingesting it or put it directly in their coin purse and frantically dig it out once the spell wears off.

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