The important thing here is that readied actions need to be nerfed because:
1) They are used in every single combat.
2) All combats are 1v1
3) All combatants only have melee weapons without reach.
4) All combatants must continue to use the same tactic they used on their very first attack.
Put me firmly in the camp that a readied move is a perfectly fine counter.
With an additional caveat.
Per the rules you charge to a specific square - the nearest square.
If the character's readied action goes off, the charging character does not get to move to follow you. His action is done. He charges to the specific square. Turn over.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Put me firmly in the camp that a readied move is a perfectly fine counter.
With an additional caveat.Per the rules you charge to a specific square - the nearest square.
If the character's readied action goes off, the charging character does not get to move to follow you. His action is done. He charges to the specific square. Turn over.
I disagree with the bolded part. The charge does have to be in a straight line, but if the target moves to a square that could be reached reach by continuing the charge you should be able to continue toward them. You charge a creature, not a square.
It's still perfectly possible to move out of the way and avoid the charge (eg. by teleporting behind the charging creature, as per the OP).
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
I have an issue with a readied action being a defensively better choice than declaring full defense. Fortunately my groups don't do any of these "Wait until mid attack then step into a new square" shenanigans. There would likely be houserules forthcoming if they did.
Play as you like, but this is not a thing I'd want at my table.
it's very easy to fix. once you understand that a ready action need an action to triger it. and it happen before or after ,depend on how you set hte trigger, but not in the middle.
so reading to move if someone shoot will happen before he shoots. so he can just adjust to your new place (uness your no longer a valid target in which he can ether pick a difrent target or try and get you anyway -there are ways to shoot around corners after all - amgic).
same for moving away after you started your full attack. since full attack is one action (takin a full attack action) you can not interupt it in the middile with a ready action. ether your ready happen before or after it is done not after one atttack and before he can get any more. if before he still hasn't taken his full attack and can adjust, if after he start you have to wait till the action is done = all attacks are resolved. remmber ready action is not attack of oppertunity which get in the middile of attacks!
same for moving away after you started your full attack. since full attack is one action (takin a full attack action) you can not interupt it in the middile with a ready action. ether your ready happen before or after it is done not after one atttack and before he can get any more. if before he still hasn't taken his full attack and can adjust, if after he start you have to wait till the action is done = all attacks are resolved. remmber ready action is not attack of oppertunity which get in the middile of attacks!
I don't think this is the case.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your f irst attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the f irst attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
A full attack can be stopped after the first attack and become a standard instead.
I have likewise seen things with a trigger of "the second attack", say for the friendly application of a Guidance spell.
/cevah
Good tactics can make a huge difference in a fight. Against most foes, even Readying an action to "attack and 5-foot step away (assuming you haven't moved) if I get attacked" can have a huge impact. When they move up to attack, your Ready interrupts, you get an attack and then step back out of their range. Since they've already moved and started their attack, they can't move again (they could use any extra or iteratives against another target.)
Then, since your initiative changes to just before theirs, you can do it again even if they only need to 5-foot step to reach you. Things like Step Up or other tactics might mitigate this depending on the circumstance (as they should), but it's still very effective against a lot of foes when you aren't being swarmed. It also works best for those with either one attack already or Vital Strike or other methods of making a single attack more powerful since you're giving up iteratives.
Since the readied action resolves before their attack, if they have movement remaining they can still use it. They can complete their move action.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Put me firmly in the camp that a readied move is a perfectly fine counter.
With an additional caveat.Per the rules you charge to a specific square - the nearest square.
If the character's readied action goes off, the charging character does not get to move to follow you. His action is done. He charges to the specific square. Turn over.
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.
Emphasized the relevant parts.
You do not designate a specific square when you start your charge. You move in a straight line towards the nearest square from which it is legal to attack the target of your charge.
If the target uses a readied action to move, but is still within a legal charge path for the charging character, the charging character continues moving in a straight line towards the nearest square from which he can legally attack.
A character who can take advantage of Wheeling Charge or has some other means to legally alter his path during a charge may be very difficult to avoid with a readied action.
Put me firmly in the camp that a readied move is a perfectly fine counter.
With an additional caveat.Per the rules you charge to a specific square - the nearest square.
If the character's readied action goes off, the charging character does not get to move to follow you. His action is done. He charges to the specific square. Turn over.
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.
Emphasized the relevant parts.
You do not designate a specific square when you start your charge. You move in a straight line towards the nearest square from which it is legal to attack the target of your charge.
If the target uses a readied action to move, but is still within a legal charge path for the charging character, the charging character continues moving in a straight line towards the nearest square from which he can legally attack.
A character who can take advantage of Wheeling Charge or has some other means to legally alter his path during a charge may be very difficult to avoid with a readied action.
+1 everything you said.
The "teleport behind them" tactic is one of the best options for this, because there's no way I can think of to do a 180 degree turn during a charge.
It's worth noting that you still need to be out of reach of the charging enemy or they could reach behind themself and attack you (and as weird as it sounds, still get their +2 to hit/bonus lance damage/etc).
Except that ready actions can happen in the middle of an enemies "activities".
Readying an Action
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
first i did mention this is a 'fix' as in not fully raw.
next, it say it happen before the action you used as trigger and he continue his other actions after. not that it happen in the middle of an action. full attack is a full round action as in one action. (yes i know that some can still be stopped in the middle like charge is a full round and still you stop them after they move but before they attack.)the fix is counting a full attack as one action, if you trigger it, it happen before the attacks if you trigger something that happen after it happen after. like you can't trigger saying 'after the hit before damage is applied' as a readied action. it is one action so can't be stopped in the middle by readied actions (saying again aoo can. and again this is not by raw -rather a fix for the people who dislike readied 5 foot breaking full attacks).
when a level 16 monk take 10 attacks(look it up) in 6 seconds (one round) you damn well can say that reading to stop them in the middle is not gona happen. ether you take action before he start or after. same for say whirlwind attack, you can't trigger off on his 2nd attack but before the 3rd .
The "teleport behind them" tactic is one of the best options for this, because there's no way I can think of to do a 180 degree turn during a charge.
Swift action Dimension Door via Dimensional Dervish.
A character that has the capability won't waste the resources if they have a clean charge lane, but may change their mind if the target uses a readied action to move or teleport.
The "teleport behind them" tactic is one of the best options for this, because there's no way I can think of to do a 180 degree turn during a charge.Swift action Dimension Door via Dimensional Dervish.
A character that has the capability won't waste the resources if they have a clean charge lane, but may change their mind if the target uses a readied action to move or teleport.
Dimensional Dervish allows you to take a full-attack action and teleport (the teleport is a swift action, the full-attack is not). If you've already charged you don't have a full-round action left to make a full-attack action.
That said, if you encounter an enemy that readies an action to attack you after their AoO goes off, you could use Dimensional Dervish to get within their reach without triggering an AoO and potentially avoiding the trigger for their readied action (depending on the wording of the readied action).
If that's not what you meant then I might need you to clarify.