Another Druid Herbalism Question


Rules Questions


Druid Herbalism Text from roll20:
roll20 wrote:

Druidic herbalism is a nature bond option that can be taken by any druid at 1st level except those with archetypes or alternate class features that alter or replace nature bond or mandate a specific nature bond choice.

Instead of granting access to a domain or an animal companion, a druid’s bond with nature can take a third form: access to druidic herbalism.

A druid who chooses to learn druidic herbalism can use combinations of nuts, berries, dried herbs, and other natural ingredients along with appropriate containers to create herbal concoctions or magic consumables that function like potions. This acts like the Brew Potion feat, but only for spells on the druid spell list. Herbal concoctions are typically thick and sludgy, and their creation time, caster level, spell duplication capabilities, and all other variables and properties are identical to those of potions created using Brew Potion. Herbal concoctions created with herbs that cause special effects when ingested retain those effects as well as the appropriate spell effect.

A druid can create a number of free herbal concoctions per day equal to her Wisdom modifier. Additional concoctions cost the same as creating an equivalent potion using Brew Potion. Druids can sell their herbal concoctions just as if they were potions (though NPCs unfamiliar with druidic herbalism may need some convincing before purchasing these wares).

At 4th level, a druid’s increasing skill with herbalism means that she can disguise the effects of her herbal concoctions. When a creature attempts a Perception or Spellcraft check to identify one of the druid’s concoctions, the concoction appears to be a different herbal concoction of the druid’s choice unless the creature exceeds the identification DC by 5 or more. The druid must designate this false result when creating the concoction. If a creature exceeds the identification DC by 5 or more, it correctly identifies the concoction, though not that the druid tried to fool it.

Additionally, at 4th level, when the druid creates additional concoctions, she need pay only half the normal cost to create them. It takes her only half the normal time to create her concoctions, and she can create concoctions of spells from any spell list, as long as she can cast the spell.

At 7th level, when the druid creates concoctions with potential false identification results, a creature attempting to identify the concoction must exceed the identification DC by 10 or more to determine the concoction’s true identity.

Additionally, at 7th level, a druid can create any herbal concoction in 1 minute. She can also create a special concoction of any spell higher than 3rd level that she can cast, but to do so, she must expend a spell slot of the same level. These special concoctions do not cost her anything to create and function like extracts created by an alchemist with the infusion discovery.

So my question hinges on this bit in particular.

roll20 wrote:
at 7th level, a druid can create any herbal concoction in 1 minute. She can also create a special concoction of any spell higher than 3rd level that she can cast, but to do so, she must expend a spell slot of the same level. These special concoctions do not cost her anything to create and function like extracts created by an alchemist with the infusion discovery.

So RAW this seems to me to say you can basically make extracts, but only of 4th level and higher spells. You can't do the same with lower level spells. This seems counterintuitive however as it should be easier not harder to make low level spells into extracts.

So my question is twofold, is my interpretation of RAW correct, and what does everyone thing it SHOULD be?


You are correct, you can only make "extracts" of 4th or higher spells, 1st-3rd are still only able to be used for "potions".


You're definitely correct that a druid's extracts, by RAW, have to be 4th level or higher. The bigger question is probably "why do you want to make lower extracts"? Potions are pretty much superior in every way, except price, which herbalism bypasses nicely. Worst case scenario, you make the potions, minimum caster level probably, at 1/4th the normal cost, so 12.5gp for a first level spell, 75gp for a second, and 187.5gp for a third level. If you use your free concoctions on 3rd and 2nd level spells, and pay for all your first level spells, you're still getting everything you want (and have sufficient slots for) at incredibly affordable prices.

I guess I don't think Herbalism is lacking enough to warrant over-riding the RAW in this case. It's like asking for the ability to put an SLA into a potion: it isn't so much that I'm AGAINST the idea as I am just finding it too niche and lacking the value to justify intentionally ruling against RAW.


It probably wouldn't be unbalancing to let a herbalist druid use their 1-3 levels slots as infusions as well, if desired. The big differences between infusions and spells that a druid casts are 1) personal spells can be given to others and 2) the action cost to activate is paid for by the target, rather than the druid.

While these can be somewhat significant, usually they are not that huge of a deal (and the place where the biggest issues happen are the higher level spells anyway.)


Dave Justice hit the main on the head. There are some very nice personal spells that can't be made into potions. Either way you are out the slot the day you prepare them either poitions or extracts. Potions you get to keep them if you don't use them which is awesome, but extracts allow for some cool spells to be handed out to your buddies.

Here are a few examples: Heightened awareness, longstrider, burning gaze, ironskin, meld into stone, fey form 1.

There are many others I just did a quick skim.


Probably the reason it doesn't allow lower level spells to be made into extracts is to discourage players from trying to exploit the Herbalist rules to make personal extracts from anything they can cast. Otherwise you'll have someone make a druid 7/spell sage 3/Mystic Theurge 10 and claim to be able to make extracts of any Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizard spell.


as you can prepare lower level spells with higher level spell slots. this question is not hard to fix.
you want lower level extract? make them as 4th level spells

Liberty's Edge

zza ni wrote:

as you can prepare lower level spells with higher level spell slots. this question is not hard to fix.

you want lower level extract? make them as 4th level spells

Doesn't work. Using a higher-level slot doesn't change the level of the spell.

You need the metamagic Heighten spell.

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