Depends on their style. A mist assassin type wants a means of seeing thru fog and if they're not doing it thru a dip they'll want a goz mask or fog-cutting lenses. If they do have that dip then sniper goggles may be relevant. Most melee rogues want items which give extra natural attacks. A melee rogue who's archetype trades away uncanny dodge may well want an amulet of uncanny defense.
Sniper Goggles are pretty great because they also give you the option to deal almost 60% increased sneak attack damage.
There's the Headband of Ninjitsu that gives you a +2 Insight on attack rolls and the ability to sneak attack creatures with total concealment.
Not a must, but when you need it you'll wish you had it.
That's basically the only sneak-attack specific items I can think of.
I would however consider an Amulet of the Blooded (Fey) before both of them. Greater Invisibility for 9 rounds per day and a no-save "daze" effect thrice per day is a steal.
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@ avr
I'm pretty sure the Amulet of Uncanny Defense doesn't give you Uncanny Dodge, it just improves upon the class feature.
A Ring of Invisibility could be a good choice. It would help with scouting around and you are almost guaranteed sneak attacks in combat. A Ring of Protection is another good choice for a deflection bonus to your AC. Vambraces of Defense also give a deflection bonus, but only a +1 while the ring can go up to +5. If you don't go with the invisibility ring, you can also try a Ring of Force Shield for a +2 shield bonus since Rogues don't have Shield Proficiency.
Oh yeah. Not a ring of invisibility, get a decoy ring. Better activation and the invisibility probably doesn't end when you attack.
Fighters have Gloves of Dueling.
Paladins have their choice of two bracers (one boosts smite, one boosts lay on hands).
Etc.
What should a rogue be going for in terms of combat boosting items (not Circlet of Persuasion or whatever)?
Sword of Sublety, but change it so you can use it on a different weapon. Belts of Dexterity, especially if you are a Unchained version or you have the Agile enchantment on your weapon.
Mithril Breastplate combined with the Armor Expert character trait. No ACP. If you want, you can slap on the Comfort enchantment or Celestial enchantment from Celestial armor. Or mod it with Adventurer's Armory 2, grab the Armor Expert feat to negate the penalties like with the Nimble or double plated or vitalguard mods.
Always have a really potent Cure potion on you, same as a potion of Invisibility for quick escapes. Try to get your Perception and Disable Device up high versus traps, on that note grab the Trap Spotter trait so you don't have to be paranoid all the time by stating you are looking for traps.
ALWAYS have a handy haversack and lots of items like acid, alchemical fire, thunderstones etc to throw at enemies. That high Dex really goes to work for you with this.
Wand of Mage Armor.
Wand of Mirror Image.
Wand of Longstrider.
Wand of (you get the picture)
Wand of Mage Armor.
Wand of Mirror Image.
Wand of Longstrider.
Wand of (you get the picture)
What's the point of a wand of Mage Armor for a Rogue? Just buy a mithril chain shirt and then enchant it to your heart's delight. Heck, buy a mithril breastplate and take the Armor Expert character trait, and you get an extra 2 AC on top of that.
What's the point of a wand of Mage Armor for a Rogue? Just buy a mithril chain shirt and then enchant it to your heart's delight.
If you're a multiclassed dex-rager, it is easy to blow right past the dex limit of nearly all armors as early as 1st level, depending on race. If you're a halfling rogue, you probably have decent charisma, and UMD is on your class skill list, so 750 for a wand is less than one-tenth the cost of enchanting a haramaki to +3. Or grab wand with two prestige-points in PFS, which you might have after your first session.
Scroll of Resurrection
Oh yeah. Not a ring of invisibility, get a decoy ring. Better activation and the invisibility probably doesn't end when you attack.
With the Fast Getaway and Slow Reactions Rogue Talents, this ring is legit.
Take Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Point Blank Shot, and Parting Shot... use daggers or starknives (with a blinkback belt), or pick up Bombs via Talents.
I dont think "what's a good item for rogues" is the place to talk about good items for multiclass characters. I also question the logic of the statement "multiclassed can do it by level one"
Rogue is a state of mind. If the first thing you do upon approaching the class is to stay inside the box, you've already failed at the concept level.
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I dont think "what's a good item for rogues" is the place to talk about good items for multiclass characters. I also question the logic of the statement "multiclassed can do it by level one"Rogue is a state of mind. If the first thing you do upon approaching the class is to stay inside the box, you've already failed at the concept level.
Except, in PF, Rogue is a class.
Accept the fact that, despite your insistence, other people usually do not like to play the same Savage Technologist multiclass clone over and over and over.
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Mithril Breastplate combined with the Armor Expert character trait. No ACP. If you want, you can slap on the Comfort enchantment or Celestial enchantment from Celestial armor. Or mod it with Adventurer's Armory 2, grab the Armor Expert feat to negate the penalties like with the Nimble or double plated or vitalguard mods.
Do you even need the trait? masterwork also provides a -1 to ACP and mithral lowers it by another 3 so you should already be looking at an ACP of 0 even without the trait.
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Mithril Breastplate combined with the Armor Expert character trait. No ACP. If you want, you can slap on the Comfort enchantment or Celestial enchantment from Celestial armor. Or mod it with Adventurer's Armory 2, grab the Armor Expert feat to negate the penalties like with the Nimble or double plated or vitalguard mods.Do you even need the trait? masterwork also provides a -1 to ACP and mithral lowers it by another 3 so you should already be looking at an ACP of 0 even without the trait.
Mithral benefits already include -1 ACP for being masterwork. So the trait would be needed.
Needless to say, though, that no one in their right mind who plays a Rogue or rogue-like character will ever waste 4000gp on a mithral breastplate, since Dex will quickly grow (either via levelling or magical items) and exceed the Dex cap given by the armor.
Mithral Chain Shirt is instead a good idea, because it is inexpensive, does not require any trait investment and will be useful for longer.
Mithral benefits already include -1 ACP for being masterwork. So the trait would be needed.
I see where it says masterwork has been included in the cost, but I don't see where it states it's benefits are included.
I agree that it's extremely expensive for something with a dex cap of +5 when ideally that should be your dex should only be as low as +5 for level or two.
Mithril is masterwork. Including all costs and benefits.
so, adamantine doesn't get a -1 ACP for being masterwork?
what about wooden armor made from darkwood or greenwood?
fire/frost-forged armor?
sunsilver armor?
all of these state that armor made from this material is considered masterwork quality and that the cost has been included in the price, but none of them list a reduced ACP as one of the benefits of the armor. Which is terrible when it comes to something like darkwood where it doesn't provide any other benefits.
By the same logic, a darkwood spear wouldn't grant a +1 to hit even though it's "considered masterwork".
edit: after double checking adamantine does list a -1 to ACP as one of it's benefits, however, the other armors I've listed make no mention of such a benefit.
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Unless stated otherwise, you get the normal benefits for a masterwork item. You are, in fact, buying a masterwork item, but with additional benefits: if these benefits specifically affect the ACP (such as in the case of mithral), it gets overwritten and you get a lower ACP, otherwise you don't.
A darkwood spear costs more than a masterwork spear because you get everything you'd get from a normal masterwork spear, plus a reduction in weight.
Unless stated otherwise, you get the normal benefits for a masterwork item. You are, in fact, buying a masterwork item, but with additional benefits: if these benefits specifically affect the ACP (such as in the case of mithral), it gets overwritten and you get a lower ACP, otherwise you don't.
A darkwood spear costs more than a masterwork spear because you get everything you'd get from a normal masterwork spear, plus a reduction in weight.
What you're saying makes sense. Do you have a source for this?
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Unless stated otherwise, you get the normal benefits for a masterwork item. You are, in fact, buying a masterwork item, but with additional benefits: if these benefits specifically affect the ACP (such as in the case of mithral), it gets overwritten and you get a lower ACP, otherwise you don't.
A darkwood spear costs more than a masterwork spear because you get everything you'd get from a normal masterwork spear, plus a reduction in weight.
What you're saying makes sense. Do you have a source for this?
The text of the special materials itself? Mithral benefits are reported compared to a normal armor of the same kind:
armor check penalties are decreased by 3
and since:
armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well
you cannot make it any more masterwork than it is.
A masterwork armor has its ACP 1 point lower than non-masterwork.
A mithral (masterwork) armor has it 3 points lower.
I don't see that wording, from Special Materials
Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Weapons and armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.
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Both the parts I quoted are included your post. I honestly don't know what else to add. The language seems pretty much explicit to me:
Armors made of mithral are also masterwork, the masterwork price is included in the cost, and the ACP is 3 points lower than a non-mithral armor.
What else do you need?
I was looking for a phrase similar to the one found for darkwood
The armor check penalty of a darkwood shield is lessened by 2 compared to an ordinary shield of its type.
We seem to agree on nearly every point. Making an item from certain materials provides benefits, in some cases one of the benefits gained is that the item is automatically masterwork. Masterwork grants its own set of benefits.
When the material modifies the ACP of the armor does that modification overlap or stack with masterwork?
This reduction in penalty is neither a bonus nor a penalty so it's difficult to apply the normal rules that govern bonuses and penalties. Gold armor actually increases the ACP of the armor. You can independently add the masterwork quality to gold armor. I would assume that doing so would reduce the ACP of the armor by 1, meaning you're seeing a net gain of +1 instead of +2. If they stack in this case why would they not stack in the case of mithral? because its included in the price?
Maybe some examples of official mithral armors would help sway your opinion?
Elven Chain (literally just a mithral chainmail). ACP is lowered by 3 compared to its normal counterpart.
Mithral Full Plate of Speed. ACP is lowered by 3 compared to its normal counterpart.
Maybe some examples of official mithral armors would help sway your opinion?
Elven Chain (literally just a mithral chainmail). ACP is lowered by 3 compared to its normal counterpart.
Mithral Full Plate of Speed. ACP is lowered by 3 compared to its normal counterpart.
Yes, that does help thank you.
The mithral plate is more compelling since it follows the guidelines of the material. The elven chain seems to have an extra ability (counting as light armor as per proficiency) and it costs 1,000 more then a normal set of mithral chainmail would. I suppose the extra cost is to offset the extra ability, but it muddies things a bit since other attributes of it might have been similarly messed with and those changes are similarly reflected in the cost.
Yes, that does help thank you.
The mithral plate is more compelling since it follows the guidelines of the material. The elven chain seems to have an extra ability (counting as light armor as per proficiency) and it costs 1,000 more then a normal set of mithral chainmail would. I suppose the extra cost is to offset the extra ability, but it muddies things a bit since other attributes of it might have been similarly messed with and those changes are similarly reflected in the cost.
Huh. Never noticed that it also changed the proficiency. That does make it unsuitable for a direct comparison.
Masterwork items get masterwork benefits. The item is of masterwork quality, apply masterwork qualities to it.
I dont get where you're saying "by the same logic..." from, as I haven't seen what you're saying as logical at all.
When you have a plus one dagger, it does a daggers amount of damage +1. You don't need to be told that, you can reference daggers and go from there. Same as masterwork items. Something of masterwork quality has masterwork qualities, and it is ready for enchantment.
I 100% agree. So, you seem to follow my logic exactly.
Except, in PF, Rogue is a class. Accept the fact that, despite your insistence, other people usually do not like to play the same Savage Technologist multiclass clone over and over and over.I dont think "what's a good item for rogues" is the place to talk about good items for multiclass characters. I also question the logic of the statement "multiclassed can do it by level one"Rogue is a state of mind. If the first thing you do upon approaching the class is to stay inside the box, you've already failed at the concept level.
I'm capable of putting up with a lot of passive-aggressive snarkiness due to my generally thick-skinned nature, but I will observe that if you and the two who "liked" your OT put-down had even bothered to follow the link, they'd see it was to material from 2011, no SavTech in sight, because that was years in the future.
I see the same faces recommending their favorite combos of kineticist, or inquisitor, or warpriest, or vigilante, or swashbuckler as a solution to nearly every build or advice request, but I don't get up in their grill over it.
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I think another aspect of good rouge-ness is jumping.
Grab a Quarterstaff of Vaulting and/or an Akitonian Blade. Both help out significantly improve the acrobatics.
/cevah
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Except, in PF, Rogue is a class. Accept the fact that, despite your insistence, other people usually do not like to play the same Savage Technologist multiclass clone over and over and over.I dont think "what's a good item for rogues" is the place to talk about good items for multiclass characters. I also question the logic of the statement "multiclassed can do it by level one"Rogue is a state of mind. If the first thing you do upon approaching the class is to stay inside the box, you've already failed at the concept level.I'm capable of putting up with a lot of passive-aggressive snarkiness due to my generally thick-skinned nature, but I will observe that if you and the two who "liked" your OT put-down had even bothered to follow the link, they'd see it was to material from 2011, no SavTech in sight, because that was years in the future.
I see the same faces recommending their favorite combos of kineticist, or inquisitor, or warpriest, or vigilante, or swashbuckler as a solution to nearly every build or advice request, but I don't get up in their grill over it.
Ah your are right - sorry. I mixed the discussion up with another thread.
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Nothing like a good jumper. Wife has a swashbuckler that could jump 10 feet high. Like...what? Made skull and shackles a fun times game.I think another aspect of good rouge-ness is jumping.
Grab a Quarterstaff of Vaulting and/or an Akitonian Blade. Both help out significantly improve the acrobatics.
/cevah
Well my ninja can take-10 to jump up 19.5'. Add a point of ki, and get 23.5'. If I had the acrobatics master and high jumper tricks, it would be 59' high. Add in the Akitonian Blade, and he would get 3x as high. Once I jumped between ships over 80' apart. I got on board the other ship to wreak havoc. Fun in Skull and Shackles.
I once was in a cavern with a 20' ceiling, and had a floating enemy. I had to jump to make an attack, and since I had Invisible Blade, I got sneak attack as well. Great times.
Jumping also is good for avoiding hazardous or difficult terrain.
/cevah
Jumping is a rogue's quick way to get into flanking, (Even if you have other means of making sneak-attacks, flanking's +2 to attack is always welcome.)