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At what point do psychic powers require money be spent on material components? Is it like Eschew Materials, where anything costing 1 gp or less is unnecessary, OR do things like fiery shuriken (requires a shuriken costing 2 sp) or grasping corpse (requires 1 gp, but no more, worth of onyx) still demand that such materials (or whatever their psychic-suitable analogues would be) be provided?
I have always run it as "psychic magic never requires a specific material component", so you never need to haul around bat guano or feathers in a pouch, but any spell with a cost listed you have to spend that much in terms "anything thematically appropriate" for the spell.
I think "expensive material components" is "any material component with a cost listed."
From the Occult Adventures book about spell components:
When a spell calls for an expensive material component, a psychic spellcaster can instead use any item with both significant meaning and a value greater than or equal to the spell’s component cost. For example, if a spiritualist wanted to cast raise dead to bring her dead husband back from the grave, she could use her 5,000 gp wedding ring as the spell’s material componentSo basically always requires material components, though it can be anything as long as the value is good enough.
Well I've always been under the assumption that 'expensive material component' was either:
a. Any given material component with a listed cost above 1gp (stated in such spells/effects such as Eschew Materials feat and the Blood Money spell).b. Anything above a certain threshold (as the materials for a Resurrect are considered "expensive" in terms of material).
personally for the purposes of psychic spells I want to assume (a.) is the go to.
who knows I could be wrong.
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Well I've always been under the assumption that 'expensive material component' was either:
a. Any given material component with a listed cost above 1gp (stated in such spells/effects such as Eschew Materials feat and the Blood Money spell).
b. Anything above a certain threshold (as the materials for a Resurrect are considered "expensive" in terms of material).
THIS. This is what I'm asking about - does anything costing 1 gp or less still count, or (for very specific example) does my Necroccultist not need to worry about paying a 1-gp toll when he casts grasping corpse?
I ask this with Organized Play in mind, by the way.
If it has a listed GP cost, you have to use something with an equivalent GP cost that has emotional value to you. If it doesn't have a GP cost, you don't need a component. If it does have a GP cost, you don't need the specific item, just something of equivalent value.
I've never seen anyone require proof of emotional investment in what they use as a costly component for psychic spells.
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I've never seen anyone require proof of emotional investment in what they use as a costly component for psychic spells.
I haven't either, but I have had people try to justify their emotional attachment to an inconvenient thing in order to try to get it to disappear by using it as a spell component a la "I really hate these 15gp common manacles".
If the item being used is 'connected' in a way to the circumstances and/or the intention of the spell, I would rule it as okay.
For example, say you want to cast a spell that will 'restrain' somebody, and it has an costly material component, would you allow the use of those manacles as a component if they fulfilled the gp requirement?
The cognition of manacles being used to restrain, effectively dissipating the item and producing the spell effect would make sense for a 'psychic' whose entire shtick is that 'they think it and it shall be' type spellcasting. (Also would add in if they went 'over' the spell cost, i.e. the manacles cost more than the spell component, the excess is wasted.)
The problem with 'significance' is outside of gimmicky items that you tie into a backstory, nothing has any 'real' significance to your typical player (at least in my experience), and would leave you better off just buying the components for the costly stuff in organized play.
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I've never seen anyone require proof of emotional investment in what they use as a costly component for psychic spells.
"I am greedy, anything worth money has a strong emotional investment for me." ;-)
or
"The shackles on my wrists have a strong emotional impact, I live to be free, so I use them as a material component." (I am not English native, but I am under the impression that what matter is the emotional value, so negative emotions count)
Too easy to abuse or make irrelevant, so generally it is discarded.
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If the item being used is 'connected' in a way to the circumstances and/or the intention of the spell, I would rule it as okay.
For example, say you want to cast a spell that will 'restrain' somebody, and it has an costly material component, would you allow the use of those manacles as a component if they fulfilled the gp requirement?
The cognition of manacles being used to restrain, effectively dissipating the item and producing the spell effect would make sense for a 'psychic' whose entire shtick is that 'they think it and it shall be' type spellcasting. (Also would add in if they went 'over' the spell cost, i.e. the manacles cost more than the spell component, the excess is wasted.)The problem with 'significance' is outside of gimmicky items that you tie into a backstory, nothing has any 'real' significance to your typical player (at least in my experience), and would leave you better off just buying the components for the costly stuff in organized play.
That all's got little or nothing to do with what I'm asking, however; I'm asking what the cutoff is for "expensive" material components: Is it 1 gold piece, or anything whatsoever that costs 1 copper piece or more???
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Material components with a specific cost--i.e., anything that wouldn't be expected to be included with the purchase of a spell component pouch.
In the spell description, if it lists a cost for the material, you have to pay the cost. If it does not list a cost, you don’t need to. There’s no cutoff for the amount.
What about spells like transformation?
It does not list a cost, just a potion of bull's strength.
With one interpretation, your statement is objectively incorrect. With the other, you end up with spell component pouches full of endless potions.
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Material components with a specific cost--i.e., anything that wouldn't be expected to be included with the purchase of a spell component pouch.So, final time for clarity: Does that mean "≥1 gp" or "≤1 cp"?
Neither. The amount of the cost is irrelevant. Whether such a cost exists at all is the deciding factor.
If the item has a specific cost, a psychic spellcaster must supply it or a meaningful alternative of equal cost. By "specific cost", that means either
1. there's a cost listed in the material component portion of the spell description (e.g., "incense worth at least 25 gp", "a diamond worth 1,500 gp") or
2. it's an item listed in some (magical or nonmagical) item list somewhere along with a cost (e.g., "a vial of holy water", "a potion of bull's strength").
Is there a specific spell about which you have a question? Both [i]fiery shuriken and grasping corpse require material components even when cast by a psychic spellcaster unless said spellcaster has Eschew Materials or a similar ability. They both fall under situation 1 above.
RD, are you arguing that a spell like Transformation is not worth the cost of a second level potion, or are you making the argument that you can choose to read it that such a tiny amount of the potion is used up that the component is effectively a focus? Either is valid, I just agree with neither. I understand the dislike of having to track such usage fees as component costs, ammunition resupply, equipment repair, food costs, etcetera, However, as has been pointed out ad nauseum by many, this game is a wargame, and it is bad wrong to leave parts of the rules behind. ^_^
More seriously, if you are not interested in a game where such resources are tracked, don't track them. Strictly by the rules, saying that an item with a known cost is not specifically cost cited in spell description means that it is effectively free then, by whatever often tortuous logical leap you use, you are probably wrong. So by the rules, be it a copper, or a diamond, the cost must be paid. You can give it any "fluff" you like, the cost signifying the balancing the occult books with the spells work and the work used to make the components. That this does not fit the thematics some people have I understand and empathize with. I even empathize with those who just want an advantage. Strictly by the rules though....
The rules state that you must pay any listed cost, yes? Transformation has no listed cost. Ergo it does not need to be paid.
So I think the intent is that a psychic caster can skip owning a components pouch, but anything someone with a components pouch would be required to have beyond said pouch, a psychic caster must also supply (or something equivalent.)
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The rules state that you must pay any listed cost, yes? Transformation has no listed cost. Ergo it does not need to be paid.
Don't be fatuous, Donny.
The rules state that you must pay any listed cost, yes? Transformation has no listed cost. Ergo it does not need to be paid.Don't be fatuous, Donny.
To play devil's advocate, do you know of any rules that claim differently?
