Spells you're surprised don't exist?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I think there shoudl be a spell that tells you how many hp a creature currently has (assume would mainly be used for finding out if power word spells will work or not) and for those who think that's too metagame. there already is a slayer talent that does this https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/slayer-talents/paizo -slayer-talents/blood-reader


Also is there a general "identify monster" spell? Figure if the monster failed their save the caster would get information about them as if they had got the highest result on a knowledge check to indentify said monster


Yqatuba wrote:
I think there shoudl be a spell that tells you how many hp a creature currently has (assume would mainly be used for finding out if power word spells will work or not) and for those who think that's too metagame. there already is a slayer talent that does this https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/slayer-talents/paizo -slayer-talents/blood-reader

Deathwatch. I played a Tiefling that had it as an at-will SLA.

Granted it only really informs you definitively if their at <4. The rest is up to how much your GM wants to actually tell you. Fighting off death being 4 or more, versus healthy which has no description. Whatever your GM labels as the limit where that "or more" cuts off, or whether you can gauge how much life essence a creature is losing with each blow.

The Exchange

Yqatuba wrote:
Also is there a general "identify monster" spell? Figure if the monster failed their save the caster would get information about them as if they had got the highest result on a knowledge check to indentify said monster

There's a lot of spells that give bonuses, or let you retry checks, or let you retry checks with a bonus. But I don't think there is any "all the info" spell.

In part that's because the amount of information you gain on a knowledge check has always been subject to GM interpretation. I've played with GMs who will give you all eight of a monster's special abilities as one "piece of knowledge" and others who consider a demon's electricity immunity, poison immunity, fire resistance, cold resistance, and acid resistance to be separate pieces of information (Requiring a knowledge result equal to CR + 25 just to get basic defenses of all demons.)

The Exchange

Yqatuba wrote:
I think there shoudl be a spell that tells you how many hp a creature currently has (assume would mainly be used for finding out if power word spells will work or not) and for those who think that's too metagame. there already is a slayer talent that does this https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/slayer-talents/paizo -slayer-talents/blood-reader

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised no such spell has been published, too.

There seems to be a strong faction among the designers that believes that some things are "too metagamey" and shouldn't be published. But depending what designers and developers are on duty for a given book (especially the softcovers) they occasionally slip through.

I happen to agree with the idea, and I don't want to see a spell that flat-out tells you how many HP a creature has. I don't like the talent for the same reason.


ZenithTN wrote:
Gaze Reflection.

The spell Medusa's Bane seems to do that, complete immunity to gaze attacks and you can end the spell earlier to reflect a Gaze.


Is there a spell that blocks telepathy within the area? Sort of like jamming a radio signal?


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a spell that blocks telepathy within the area? Sort of like jamming a radio signal?

Most telepathy is Sp or Su, so antimagic field would work.

Is there something more specific though I'm not sure.


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a spell that blocks telepathy within the area? Sort of like jamming a radio signal?

Both Telepathic Censure and Synaptic Scramble prevent telepathy, but they're single-target spells.

Dark Archive

shaventalz wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a spell that blocks telepathy within the area? Sort of like jamming a radio signal?
Both Telepathic Censure and Synaptic Scramble prevent telepathy, but they're single-target spells.

If you want an area, you'll need Telepathic Silence. 60ft emanation, no spell resistance or save, no telepathic messages send or recieved. It is a shame it takes a round to cast though, but it is a long distance spell.


Adjustable Image: L3, as Silent Image, except that a swift action allows you to change the image to be something completely different. Useful for putting on a show, since it lets you be a living film-projector.
The swift-change thing courtesy of Adjustable Disguise, which is disguise self but with that added.


Lucy_Valentine wrote:

Adjustable Image: L3, as Silent Image, except that a swift action allows you to change the image to be something completely different. Useful for putting on a show, since it lets you be a living film-projector.

The swift-change thing courtesy of Adjustable Disguise, which is disguise self but with that added.

Well, Prestidigitation [0] has: It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. Thus you can make a movie that has 10 frames per minute.

Major Image [3] states: While concentrating, you can move the image within the range.
You can argue that the move is not as a whole image, but say an image of a creature can be moved as if walking.

Persistent Image [5] has: and the figment follows a script determined by you.
This script could be like a movie script, and have the image move about.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

Major Image [3] states: While concentrating, you can move the image within the range.

You can argue that the move is not as a whole image, but say an image of a creature can be moved as if walking.

Well yeah, I don't think I've ever heard someone dispute that an Image spell of a creature can move like a creature rather than hovering around. But I want to do a whole moving picture: background, foreground, multiple characters. Concentrate to produce a story in pictures. And then team up with an actual narrator to do awesome entertainment.


Lucy_Valentine wrote:
Cevah wrote:

Major Image [3] states: While concentrating, you can move the image within the range.

You can argue that the move is not as a whole image, but say an image of a creature can be moved as if walking.
Well yeah, I don't think I've ever heard someone dispute that an Image spell of a creature can move like a creature rather than hovering around. But I want to do a whole moving picture: background, foreground, multiple characters. Concentrate to produce a story in pictures. And then team up with an actual narrator to do awesome entertainment.

I had an entertainment-focused character that used Major Image for that reason. He would buy books whenever he could and would put them on as shows for kids.


Yqatuba wrote:
Also is there a general "identify monster" spell? Figure if the monster failed their save the caster would get information about them as if they had got the highest result on a knowledge check to indentify said monster

Find fault is something like this.


HetBlik wrote:
ZenithTN wrote:
Gaze Reflection.
The spell Medusa's Bane seems to do that, complete immunity to gaze attacks and you can end the spell earlier to reflect a Gaze.

Spell level is too high. 2nd level at best.

Duration is too short. 1 min/level would be fine.
And using the reflective property should not terminate the defensive property.


Magical snowshoes.


There's nothing like magical snowshoes. You need some hefty magic to replace a mundane item. There should be a low level spell that lets you walk normally on snow, ice, sand, scree or the like.


Loren Pechtel wrote:
There's nothing like magical snowshoes. You need some hefty magic to replace a mundane item. There should be a low level spell that lets you walk normally on snow, ice, sand, scree or the like.

Feather step for sand and the effect of an ice storm spell at least. Or possibly air step. The rules for scree (just a penalty for acrobatics & stealth) don't require any special gear really. I'd honestly like to see the writer of that rule on a scree slope.


Are there any spells that flat out shut off your ability to feel pain? Considering how often adventurers get hurt it would seem like a good spell, though I'm not sure how it would work.


Loren Pechtel wrote:
Magical snowshoes.

Well, 3.X has:

Snowshoes
Snowshoes, Mass

I also recall a (3.5) spell that let you walk about 1' above the ground, but cannot spot it.

/cevah


Yqatuba wrote:
Are there any spells that flat out shut off your ability to feel pain? Considering how often adventurers get hurt it would seem like a good spell, though I'm not sure how it would work.

What would be the mechanical advantage of not feeling pain, in game terms?


Andostre wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
Are there any spells that flat out shut off your ability to feel pain? Considering how often adventurers get hurt it would seem like a good spell, though I'm not sure how it would work.
What would be the mechanical advantage of not feeling pain, in game terms?

Immunity to spells with the Pain descriptor. A few classes have it as an ability.


Yqatuba wrote:
Are there any spells that flat out shut off your ability to feel pain? Considering how often adventurers get hurt it would seem like a good spell, though I'm not sure how it would work.

Delay Pain

Placebo Effect is similar, allowing you to ignore lots of negative conditions.


Oh, I thought of one the other day, though it may be more of an item or metamagic feat than a specific spell.

Spectral Hand lets you deliver a touch spell from range. I can't find something though that would say, let you fire a ray or line from a different point of origin other than a familiar (which even then I think is only touch spells you can deliver).

Why would you want to? Ignoring cover is a big one, changing line of effect. I also just think it would be cool for a wizard to spread their arms and their 3 Scorching Rays come from 3 different points in the room to hit 3 different targets who thought themselves safe.


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Isaac Zephyr wrote:

Oh, I thought of one the other day, though it may be more of an item or metamagic feat than a specific spell.

Spectral Hand lets you deliver a touch spell from range. I can't find something though that would say, let you fire a ray or line from a different point of origin other than a familiar (which even then I think is only touch spells you can deliver).

Why would you want to? Ignoring cover is a big one, changing line of effect. I also just think it would be cool for a wizard to spread their arms and their 3 Scorching Rays come from 3 different points in the room to hit 3 different targets who thought themselves safe.

Eldritch Conduit gets you partway there. No rays, but it lets you fire area-effect spells as if you were where someone else is standing.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:

Oh, I thought of one the other day, though it may be more of an item or metamagic feat than a specific spell.

Spectral Hand lets you deliver a touch spell from range. I can't find something though that would say, let you fire a ray or line from a different point of origin other than a familiar (which even then I think is only touch spells you can deliver).

Why would you want to? Ignoring cover is a big one, changing line of effect. I also just think it would be cool for a wizard to spread their arms and their 3 Scorching Rays come from 3 different points in the room to hit 3 different targets who thought themselves safe.

Projected Image will allow something of the same nature - spell originating well away from the caster.


That makes me think: are ray spells and magic rays in general deflected by mirrors like laser beams? If so, it could make for interesting tactics i.e if you get the angle right you can bounce a ray off a mirror to hit someone around the corner (though I would give a pretty big penalty on the attack roll).


Is there a spell that's like feeblemind but it affects your physical stats instead?(i.e lowers your STR and CON to 1)


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a spell that's like feeblemind but it affects your physical stats instead?(i.e lowers your STR and CON to 1)

Probably not. Reducing Con that low would kill most creatures even with Feeblemind-equivalent safeties (since that would drastically reduce their HP, giving -5/HD to their Max HP not including what would be lost from a pre-existing Con bonus), and reducing Str similarly would gimp the creature's damage (making Str bonus now a -5, which translates to attack and damage, it would be stronger than any other attack penalty).

That said, the Metamagic feat Toxic Spell can apply poison to any spell, and there are plenty of Str and Con damage poisons. So while there's no Feeblemind-equivalent, the option to do similar is there.


OK how about STR and DEX to 1 instead?


Limp Lash does that pretty well, though it suffers from some severe restrictions such being able to walk away from the tether to break it.

Don't forget that strength loss also over-encumbers you!


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a spell that's like feeblemind but it affects your physical stats instead?(i.e lowers your STR and CON to 1)

Probably not. Reducing Con that low would kill most creatures even with Feeblemind-equivalent safeties (since that would drastically reduce their HP, giving -5/HD to their Max HP not including what would be lost from a pre-existing Con bonus), and reducing Str similarly would gimp the creature's damage (making Str bonus now a -5, which translates to attack and damage, it would be stronger than any other attack penalty).

That said, the Metamagic feat Toxic Spell can apply poison to any spell, and there are plenty of Str and Con damage poisons. So while there's no Feeblemind-equivalent, the option to do similar is there.

Per the SRD:

Constitution wrote:
Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he advances in level).

So even with a -5 penalty, they still have 1 hp per HD.

Per the SRD:

Carrying Capacity wrote:

A character can lift as much as double his maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action).

A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.

With a strength of 1, their heavy load is 10#, so they can stagger 5' under 20# as a full round action. Don't forget to adjust for extra legs and/or size as needed.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

Per the SRD:

Constitution wrote:
Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he advances in level).
So even with a -5 penalty, they still have 1 hp per HD.

Yeah, pretty much what I was getting at. Since monsters use average HP for their hit dice, even a d12 HD creature will be reduced to 1 HP per HD. One action would effectively reduce them to less than a single attack worth of hit points.

It would essentially be a save or die spell of the highest magnitude. Save or be one shot the next available action. Or hell, save and then be hit by a Quickened Magic Missile (spell level 5, so same as Feeblemind). Instant win any encounter. 5 1d4+1 missiles is 10 min damage, so anything 10 HD not immune would be dead without question (and like, dead dead, since the new Con score would reduce max negative HP), and that's the minimum damage.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
even a d12 HD creature will be reduced to 1 HP per HD

Technically, a creature with a d12 hit die would then average 1.5 hit points per hit die.


SuperJedi224 wrote:
Isaac Zephyr wrote:
even a d12 HD creature will be reduced to 1 HP per HD
Technically, a creature with a d12 hit die would then average 1.5 hit points per hit die.

Huh? How do you get an average of 1.5 when the rule states 1?

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
SuperJedi224 wrote:
Isaac Zephyr wrote:
even a d12 HD creature will be reduced to 1 HP per HD
Technically, a creature with a d12 hit die would then average 1.5 hit points per hit die.

Huh? How do you get an average of 1.5 when the rule states 1?

/cevah

"Creature." Monsters get average HP, they don't roll. So 6.5 HP per HD.


SuperJedi224 wrote:
Isaac Zephyr wrote:
even a d12 HD creature will be reduced to 1 HP per HD
Technically, a creature with a d12 hit die would then average 1.5 hit points per hit die.

You're correct, I was averaging wrong. I dunno why I defaulted d12 as 5.5 per level average instead of the 6.5.

The point made would still stand though. 1 spell to put pretty much any creature in 1 shot range. Rare d20 HD creatures like the Tarrasque (who's SR and saves would probably save him vs the fictional spell, but ignoring that a moment) would bet 5.5/HD.

I also realized Feeblemind targets Int and Cha, specifically avoiding Wis which influences Will saves. Nerfing a creature's Con or even Dex to 1 would kill their Fort and Ref saves respectively which Feeblemind avoids. If there were an instant acting Feeblemind for physicals, it could really only target Str without becoming the best spell ever.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:

Rare d20 HD creatures like the Tarrasque (who's SR and saves would probably save him vs the fictional spell, but ignoring that a moment) would bet 5.5/HD.

Only the 5e Tarrasque has d20 hit dice, the Pathfinder version (and the 3.5e version) uses d10s like nearly every other magical beast.


SuperJedi224 wrote:
Isaac Zephyr wrote:

Rare d20 HD creatures like the Tarrasque (who's SR and saves would probably save him vs the fictional spell, but ignoring that a moment) would bet 5.5/HD.

Only the 5e Tarrasque has d20 hit dice, the Pathfinder version (and the 3.5e version) uses d10s like nearly every other magical beast.

*looks at the clear evidence that I play too many tabletops and they're all bleeding over into one another* ... What am I doing with my life?

That just kinda makes things worse though, if the best creatures would be reduced to between 20-30 HP.


Well aside from creature of the the dragons, these* are the only d12s ones:
Berserker Cannibal
Devouring Mist
Kuru
Monkey Goblin
Mutant Goblin
Mutant Orc
Shoanti Gladiators
Trox
Ulfen Raider
Wereboar
Wereboar
Werewolverine
Werewolverine

No creature has a larger HD size.

/cevah

*Based on 27Jul2015 bestiary database

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

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There should be a spell called Heat Water To Just the Right Temperature For Tea, But Not Tea Right Now, But Tea So It Will Be Just the Right Temperature After a Few Minutes of Steeping.


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Wouldn't a better one be 'Create Perfect Tea'?


Well, there is the Karyukai Tea Set. If your diplomacy is good, you can get great effects.

/cevah


Christopher Dudley wrote:
There should be a spell called Heat Water To Just the Right Temperature For Tea, But Not Tea Right Now, But Tea So It Will Be Just the Right Temperature After a Few Minutes of Steeping.

Prestidigitation


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Cevah wrote:

Well, there is the Karyukai Tea Set. If your diplomacy is good, you can get great effects.

/cevah

Shame the duration on the greater heroism doesn't get increased. But I love the idea of the group participating in an hour long tea ceremony just before teleporting into the villain's stronghold.


Moisture Missile should be a thing. Similar to magic missile, but when it hits you, you feel uncomfortably moist, like walking outside in Florida.


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Moisture Missile should be a thing. Similar to magic missile, but when it hits you, you feel uncomfortably moist, like walking outside in Florida.

I think that spell is called heatstroke.


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Thunderball. Would be just like fireball but does half lightning half sonic damage. Not sure if this would make it higher level or not.


Yqatuba wrote:
Thunderball. Would be just like fireball but does half lightning half sonic damage. Not sure if this would make it higher level or not.

I would label that already kinda doable. Elemental Spell metamagic you can swap the element type on a spell. Mix the the Sylph trait to 1/day make any electricity spell deal half Sonic damage and there you go. As described as a +1 level spell.

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