Spells you're surprised don't exist?


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Spell that destroys the entire multiverse with no save. DM only.


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Limited Miracle for Druids, Clerics, and Oracles.

Dark Archive

Spells that do elemental damage or use the elements to achieve their effects (other than fire). Hurled boulders, high pressure jets (or walls/waves!) of water, single-target gusts of wind that unbalance or disarm foes. Riptide was a step in the right direction. Spells based on the eastern elements of wood or metal, as well. I'd love a robust selection of spells of air, earth, water, metal and wood for elementalist wizards and sorcerers of those elements. (We have gotten a fair number of them, over the years, but I'm surprised they weren't part of the system from launch.)

Negative energy spells. It's a primal force in the system, and mysteriously ignored by arcane casters. There are meta 'backwards compatibility of theme' reasons that they can't call on positive energy (wizards can't heal!1!), but no such niche protection for using negative energy to hurt the living. Spells that creates ranged single-target or walls or choking clouds of negative energy seems appropriately creepy and on-theme for a necromancer or undead bloodline sorcerer. (More so than fear spells!)


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Yqatuba wrote:
Spell that destroys the entire multiverse with no save. DM only.

^_^

Cartman's Injunction has existed for quite some time,
Cartman's Injunction wrote:
Screw you guys, I'm going home


Ryze Kuja wrote:
Limited Miracle for Druids, Clerics, and Oracles.

I'd go with Minor Miracle.


I had the idea for minor miracle but someone said there's already a feat named that.


Is there a spell to summon a corpse? Mainly to raise people from the dead and also get their stuff back if they got killed by an animal or something else that wouldn't care about looting their gear.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
I'm kind of surprised there isn't a Communal Spell metamagic feat. Increase spell level by one, allow you to affect multiple targets by dividing the duration among those affected. Would need some limiters on what types of spells it could be applied to, but still seems doable.

That would actually be a nightmare. Some spells people want would be personal. Some would be single target but be considered very powerful by the developers who wouldn't want them cast on multiple players even with very short duration.

Three examples that come to mind are See Invisibility, which the designers have gone to great lengths to make sure it isn't easy to share with non-casters. Then there is Improved Invisibility. Being able to share out that spell would make it a top tier buff. And then there is Mirror Image. One of the most powerful defensive spells in Pathfinder that is also a low level spell.

Making a spell communal or mass is something that needs to be carefully considered. Otherwise someone will insist they found to make Communal Miracle work.


Set wrote:


Negative energy spells. It's a primal force in the system, and mysteriously ignored by arcane casters. There are meta 'backwards compatibility of theme' reasons that they can't call on positive energy (wizards can't heal!1!), but no such niche protection for using negative energy to hurt the living. Spells that creates ranged single-target or walls or choking clouds of negative energy seems appropriately creepy and on-theme for a necromancer or undead bloodline sorcerer. (More so than fear spells!)

A lot of negative energy based spells weren't converted from 3.5 to Pathfinder because of the problems they cause. Namely that Negative Energy heals undead, or harms the living. The most common source of negative energy in Pathfinder are Clerics channeling. This is where the whole idea of splitting up what positive/negative energy does to the living vs what it does to undead.

The old spells did both. Heck, the old way to have feats modify what energy type spells did included negative energy as a possibility which was greatly abused by 3.5 necromancers. So many examples of rules abuse abounded in 3.5 involving negative energy that the designers of Pathfinder wanted to nail that lid closed. And they did.


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a spell to summon a corpse? Mainly to raise people from the dead and also get their stuff back if they got killed by an animal or something else that wouldn't care about looting their gear.

That would be Wish. Several spells refer to requiring a Wish to get a body back.

If you just had a divination spell that located corpses it would probably be useless since it would have to be somewhat like other divination spells. Generally speaking, divination spells in Pathfinder are usually only slightly better than wandering around blindly and using perception.


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Why aren't Disrupt Undead and Control Undead available to Clerics?


Is there a scrying spell that just looks at an area rather than a creature (sort of like a magic security camera)?


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a scrying spell that just looks at an area rather than a creature (sort of like a magic security camera)?

Closest I can think of is Prying Eyes.


I guess that would work. They aren't invisible but are hard to spot and I imagine if you put them in a darkened corner of the ceiling in a room they would get a bonus to stealth.


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a scrying spell that just looks at an area rather than a creature (sort of like a magic security camera)?

Clairvoyance as well. Or station conveniet caged rodents to scry on.


Sentry Skull does this, but it's evil and, more importantly, only works in grand total of 30 feet (and remember cameras are raised, so you've got to break out the Pythagorean) .


Mudfoot wrote:
Why aren't Disrupt Undead and Control Undead available to Clerics?

Because Positive/Negative Energy Channeling and Turn/Command Undead Feats exist.


Yqatuba wrote:
Is there a scrying spell that just looks at an area rather than a creature (sort of like a magic security camera)?

How about Enter Image and Irrisen Mirror Sight? Both need something at the destination, but can often be set up by an inventive caster.

/cevah


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We have Unseen Servant, and Unseen Crew, but what about... Unseen Hazards?
Like, it throws a random assortment of shapes made out of force that can not be seen all over the area. So, when people are walking through, they have to make a save or be tripped.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fox Soul wrote:

We have Unseen Servant, and Unseen Crew, but what about... Unseen Hazards?

Like, it throws a random assortment of shapes made out of force that can not be seen all over the area. So, when people are walking through, they have to make a save or be tripped.

Makes me think of spike growth or spike stones.


Fox Soul wrote:

We have Unseen Servant, and Unseen Crew, but what about... Unseen Hazards?

Like, it throws a random assortment of shapes made out of force that can not be seen all over the area. So, when people are walking through, they have to make a save or be tripped.

Etheric Shards are invisible force razor wire.


Alphavoltario wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
Why aren't Disrupt Undead and Control Undead available to Clerics?
Because Positive/Negative Energy Channeling and Turn/Command Undead Feats exist.

So that's exactly why they should be able to do it. What is divine casting other than channeling the power of your god, albeit under a different name?

After all, there are feats to make channeling do spell-like things, so why not have spells to do channeling-like things?


Spell that lets you see through people's clothes (assuming you can pick and choose who it works on) I'm surprised that say, Sorshen didn't invent this spell.


Yqatuba wrote:
Spell that lets you see through people's clothes (assuming you can pick and choose who it works on) I'm surprised that say, Sorshen didn't invent this spell.

Ring of X-Ray Vision.


Mudfoot wrote:
Alphavoltario wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
Why aren't Disrupt Undead and Control Undead available to Clerics?
Because Positive/Negative Energy Channeling and Turn/Command Undead Feats exist.

So that's exactly why they should be able to do it. What is divine casting other than channeling the power of your god, albeit under a different name?

After all, there are feats to make channeling do spell-like things, so why not have spells to do channeling-like things?

Not that I disagree with you, but I think Mudfoot's point is that clerics already have an ability to damage/control undead, so they created disrupt undead and control undead to allow other casters to do the same. Clerics don't need it, in most cases.


Speaking of Enter Image, everyone thinks the spell is awesome till they see the range and inability to change images. Enter Image, Greater would be great.


deuxhero wrote:
Speaking of Enter Image, everyone thinks the spell is awesome till they see the range and inability to change images. Enter Image, Greater would be great.
Enter Image wrote:
You gain a dim impression of the activities around any object bearing your face or form and ...

Well, then use Alter Self.

Alter Self wrote:
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type.

Yes, the range is short, but so what? Surely the BBEG [when humanoid] has a self portrait you can duplicate.

/cevah


Is there a spell that makes it so anyone who damages you takes the same amount of damage?


Also is there a spell that lets you "eavesdrop" on telepathic conversations?


Not a spell per se, but I'm surprised there isn't some sort of inexpensive long range communication device. Sending isn't exactly low level or practical for a conversation. Combinations of Scrying and Telepathy are quite frankly too risky to allow. If you can throw scrying around there is no reason your enemies can't do the same. And I bet they aren't going to be pairing Scrying with Telepathy.

And the cheapest reasonable communication device is a crystal ball with telepathy. There is nothing like a radio, or a telephone. You'd think there could at least be something like paired shells where what is herd by one could be herd through the other.

Then again, someone would try to use sonic magic through the shells and it gets complicated again. /sigh. This is why we can't have nice things!

Dark Archive

Meirril wrote:

And the cheapest reasonable communication device is a crystal ball with telepathy. There is nothing like a radio, or a telephone. You'd think there could at least be something like paired shells where what is herd by one could be herd through the other.

Then again, someone would try to use sonic magic through the shells and it gets complicated again. /sigh. This is why we can't have nice things!

Make the 'telephones' out of fragile spun glass, and any damaging sound will destroy them (and not be transmitted to the distant glass). (Or just explicitly say that the transmitted sound can't be A) damaging, or B) convey any magical properties (either as a command word to activate or bypass another spell or item, or as a language-dependent spell).)

It's a solvable thing, but definitely one to nip in the bud *before* introducing the idea of long-distance sound-transmitting items.

A weird version might use the humble message spell in the enchantment, and be limited to the range of the spell, but be able to pass on messages from stone to stone, spaced at 100 ft. intervals throughout a mage's castle, so that he can send a message to someone at the other end of the castle, but it has to relay through multiple stones, and someone standing near one of the stones in the middle hears it 'talking to itself' as it receives the message and sends it 'down the chain.' Like a steampunk-y 'pneumatic message tube' system, there would have to be little tunnels for the sound to pass through networking through the castle (which a diminutive creature could perhaps exploit?).

The old standby of fantasy that I've seen is a book that is linked to another book, so that either book-owner can write a message on a blank page, and it appears identically on the paired book. That's a visually cool and more 'magical' feeling option than a simple 'message telephone.'


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The Irrisen Mirror Spell is quite long range, as it can even go into another plane. With a schedule, it can be made a long range communication system. I had one set up in the Skull and Shackles campaign. While visual only, lip-reading is available.

/cevah


Yqatuba wrote:
Also is there a spell that lets you "eavesdrop" on telepathic conversations?

There's a feat, Telepathy Tap.


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Meirril wrote:

Not a spell per se, but I'm surprised there isn't some sort of inexpensive long range communication device. Sending isn't exactly low level or practical for a conversation. Combinations of Scrying and Telepathy are quite frankly too risky to allow. If you can throw scrying around there is no reason your enemies can't do the same. And I bet they aren't going to be pairing Scrying with Telepathy.

And the cheapest reasonable communication device is a crystal ball with telepathy. There is nothing like a radio, or a telephone. You'd think there could at least be something like paired shells where what is herd by one could be herd through the other.

Then again, someone would try to use sonic magic through the shells and it gets complicated again. /sigh. This is why we can't have nice things!

A permanent mindscape combined with Mindscape Door lets anyone who has been introduced to the mindscape to enter it from anywhere in the multiverse to converse face to face with anyone else there for as long as they want. I can't see any good reason you couldn't leave messages on a chalk board in a mindscape, either.


Cevah wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Speaking of Enter Image, everyone thinks the spell is awesome till they see the range and inability to change images. Enter Image, Greater would be great.
Enter Image wrote:
You gain a dim impression of the activities around any object bearing your face or form and ...
Well, then use Alter Self.

I meant the inability to hop between specific pictures of yourself. Once you've picked on you're stuck with it. Alter Self can't mimic exact forms anyways (it just gives you a big disguise bonus and negates penalties)


Not so much a "spell I'm surprised doesn't exist" as a spell idea I thought of that I'm not sure if it already exists or not: Is there a spell that makes the victim think some worthless object is actually SUPER valuable, to the point they won't give it up for any reason and will even fight to the death if someone tries to take it from them? I think this would make sense as a spell for a creature associated with greed. I imagine they would have fun watching people fight to the death over a rat turd or the like.


deuxhero wrote:
Cevah wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Speaking of Enter Image, everyone thinks the spell is awesome till they see the range and inability to change images. Enter Image, Greater would be great.
Enter Image wrote:
You gain a dim impression of the activities around any object bearing your face or form and ...
Well, then use Alter Self.
I meant the inability to hop between specific pictures of yourself. Once you've picked on you're stuck with it. Alter Self can't mimic exact forms anyways (it just gives you a big disguise bonus and negates penalties)

If you want to hop images, cast the spell again. :-)

As to the form, how close is the image to the original anyway?

Yqatuba wrote:
Not so much a "spell I'm surprised doesn't exist" as a spell idea I thought of that I'm not sure if it already exists or not: Is there a spell that makes the victim think some worthless object is actually SUPER valuable, to the point they won't give it up for any reason and will even fight to the death if someone tries to take it from them? I think this would make sense as a spell for a creature associated with greed. I imagine they would have fun watching people fight to the death over a rat turd or the like.

There is the Glittering Trinket. For 120 gp, it fakes being a 1000 gp item.

/cevah


deuxhero wrote:
Cevah wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Speaking of Enter Image, everyone thinks the spell is awesome till they see the range and inability to change images. Enter Image, Greater would be great.
Enter Image wrote:
You gain a dim impression of the activities around any object bearing your face or form and ...
Well, then use Alter Self.
I meant the inability to hop between specific pictures of yourself. Once you've picked on you're stuck with it.

I'd be more worried by the fact that you leave your helpless body behind. Besides, if I'm reading it right, you can actually change images, so long as you exit the first image and go back to your body before entering a new one (maintain concentration the entire time, of course). Nothing states that the spell ends when you leave an image.

The Exchange

Yqatuba wrote:
Not so much a "spell I'm surprised doesn't exist" as a spell idea I thought of that I'm not sure if it already exists or not: Is there a spell that makes the victim think some worthless object is actually SUPER valuable, to the point they won't give it up for any reason and will even fight to the death if someone tries to take it from them? I think this would make sense as a spell for a creature associated with greed. I imagine they would have fun watching people fight to the death over a rat turd or the like.

There's nothing quite like that, but several spells play on that theme.

Covetous urge makes the victim want to steal anything valuable it sees.

Unnatural lust can make the target go caress an object for a round as it is suddenly seized by a huge desire for the object.

Fool's gold makes items appear to be worth far more than they really are, but "far more" is a relative term and it doesn't really break the noise floor when you're talking about PC wealth. (Ooh, this candlestick is normally worth 10 copper, but now I think it's worth 5 gold instead...yeah, big deal.) More a spell for charlatans to use on gullible country folk.


Gaze Reflection.


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ZenithTN wrote:
Gaze Reflection.

Shield of Perseus would be a cool name for it, since that was the Medusa-and-the-mirror guy.


"Mirror" would be good too. I know enough systems that I can't remember if this one has it, many do though.


Is there any spell that tells how old a creature is? Could be useful for any number of uses.

The Exchange

Yqatuba wrote:
Is there any spell that tells how old a creature is? Could be useful for any number of uses.

Psychic reading


Cool. What about such a spell for objects? Object Reading doesn't do it (or at least it doesn't explicitly say so.


Keep forgetting to ask this: Is there a spell which changes your native plane? I.E if someone from the prime went to the plane of air and cast it the plane of air would henceforth be considered natives and not have the extraplanar type when there.

The Exchange

Yqatuba wrote:
Keep forgetting to ask this: Is there a spell which changes your native plane? I.E if someone from the prime went to the plane of air and cast it the plane of air would henceforth be considered natives and not have the extraplanar type when there.

As far as I know there's no spell that does that.

Boots of Planar Grounding are a magic item that makes you always count as being on your home plane; you never count as extraplanar.


Yqatuba wrote:
Cool. What about such a spell for objects? Object Reading doesn't do it (or at least it doesn't explicitly say so.

Legend lore might work in some cases. For the rest, there's the old commune binary search. "Is it at least 1,000 years old? 500? 250? 375?" Offer not valid if your nigh-omniscient deity isn't so nigh-omniscient after all.

Silver Crusade

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There ought to be Orisons for both Birth Control and Fertility.

The Exchange

Magda Luckbender wrote:
There ought to be Orisons for both Birth Control and Fertility.

Leave something for the alchemists to do!

You can pick up cheap drugs for the first thing for both men and women.

As for the second, I seem to recall there was some ritual in some book where a priest of a certain deity could perform a marriage ceremony and it resulted in increased fertility for the couple. Can't for the life of me remember the book or the deity.

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