Can bestow curse do this?

[Yqatuba]

Put a curse on someone so they can only speak backwards (making spellcasting impossible for one)? and maybe make it so someone who speaks the same language can make a linguistics check to decypher what they are saying? Yes I know you could just make them mute but this would be more funny.

[MrCharisma]

The flavour behind it sounds fun to me.

I would say that the linguistics check to understand them is a great idea, although i'm not sure how high the DC would be.

Making spellcasting impossible is far too powerful for bestow curse. You'd probably have them make a concentration check, spellcraft check, linguistics check or caster-level check, and if they fail they lose the spell.

My first draft: Concentration check, DC: 15+(2×spell-level). If they're threatened the DC increases by 4. (Essentially that's the DC to cast defensively, but if they actually need to cast defensively the DC is higher).

Alternatively they can make a Linguistics check (My first instinct was to make this the same DC, but I assume that will be totally unbalanced one way or the other).

The player would get to choose which check they make (concentration or linguistics).

[Yqatuba]

MrCharisma wrote:

The flavour behind it sounds fun to me.

Making spellcasting impossible is far too powerful for bestow curse. You'd probably have them make a concentration check, spellcraft check, linguistics check or caster-level check, and if they fail they lose the spell.

Does that mean making someone mute with bestow curse is too powerful as well?

[MrCharisma]

So I just thought about it and ... I'm not sure.

In your original post I got stuck on the "impossible to cast spells" part and forgot to think why it's impossible. In fact it's not impossible. They can cast spells without verbal components, or spells modified by the "Silent Spell" metamagic feat.

So maybe it's not as overpowered as I thought

However ...

BESTOW CURSE is a 3rd level spell (mostly)

I thought that BLINDNESS-DEAFNESS was a 3rd level spell, but i's mosy a 2nd level spell.

Deafness (the condition) gives you a 20% spell-failure chance. Being mute would make casting spells with verbal components impossible. I feel like a 3rd level spell like Bestow Curse would probably land somewhere in between. You could give them a 50% spell failure chance? That falls roughly in line with the "50% chance to act" example they give, and means you don't have to worry about Sellcraft DCs and wotnot.

What do you think (Or anyone else with experience with this kind of thing)?

[Yqatuba]

I guess. Personally I don't get why deafness interferes with spellcasting. Even if you can't hear yourself talk you can still make the mouth movements.

[MrCharisma]

Part of it is the way spellcasting works in pathfinder. It's called "Vancian" casting (based on a book series, I believe Vance was the author). The Idea is that when a wizard prepares his spells he's memorising the words/gestures/etc, but when he casts the spell those memories disappear from his mind. That's why he has to learn them anew every morning. There are plenty ofndiscussions about how good/bad this is, but for now that's what we have.

Now imagine you're trying to pronounce latin words (or if you know latin pick a language you don't know). You've seen them written down but you're sounding them out as you go (because after you say them you magically forget them). If you're deaf then it's harder to be sure you got it all right. 20% is only a 1/5 chance to miss, and it only affects verbal spells.

Now bqck on track, what do you think of 50% spell-failure for verbal spells + plus a linguistics check for friends to understand you? Actually you could also say that "Language Dependant" spells auto-fail as well (I don't think that would be unbalanced).

Also, for what you orinally intended (no casting) there's a 5th level spell called "feeblemind". I'd let you use Greater Bestow Curse to stop all casting as well.

[Yqatuba]

Yes that makes sense. As for feeblemind I noticed for some reason it leaves the victim's wisdom intact. Meaning if they are a wisdom caster they could possibly still cast if the DM would allow it. Personally I wouldn't as there's no way you could convince me that, say, a frog (which is about how smart 1 int is) understands what spellcasting is, let alone how to do it.

[MrCharisma]

Feeblemind specifically says you can't cast spells, but yes apart from that it's not as bad for a WIS-based character.

[CloudCobra]

Yqatuba wrote:

Put a curse on someone so they can only speak backwards (making spellcasting impossible for one)? and maybe make it so someone who speaks the same language can make a linguistics check to decypher what they are saying? Yes I know you could just make them mute but this would be more funny.

Try looking in Dragon Magazine #348 under the article "Bestowed Curses" for examples. Bestow Curse and Greater Bestow Curse were always great when it came to flavor.

[CloudCobra]

Yqatuba wrote:

Put a curse on someone so they can only speak backwards (making spellcasting impossible for one)? and maybe make it so someone who speaks the same language can make a linguistics check to decypher what they are saying? Yes I know you could just make them mute but this would be more funny.

Try looking in Dragon Magazine #348 under the Article "Bestowed Curses." I'd say talking backwards is about on the same level as not being able to tell a lie in the examples.

Bestow Curse and Greater Bestow Curse were always more about flavor.

[Ravingdork]

Per the GameMastery Guide, you can bestow a single insanity as part of bestow curse's effects. Amnesia is one such insanity.

Considering you can strip someone of their class abilities, feats, and skill ranks, making them lose their spellcasting seems rather trivial in comparison.

Losing one's spellcasting due to being tongue toed is also weak compared to a 50% chance of losing all your actions every round. Something as simple as Silent Spell or spell-like abilities get past that.

[Klorox]

Yqatuba wrote:

Put a curse on someone so they can only speak backwards (making spellcasting impossible for one)? and maybe make it so someone who speaks the same language can make a linguistics check to decypher what they are saying? Yes I know you could just make them mute but this would be more funny.

Speaking backwards makes spell casting impossible? Ever heard of a DC character called Zatanna?

[Meirril]

Actually speaking backwards shouldn't have any effect on spellcasting. The caster is saying the words, in whatever arcane language the spell is scribed in (You don't think it is Taldin, do you?). Just because its harder for others to understand what he is saying doesn't mean the spell is more difficult to cast.

One thing that would be different using a curse vs a spell that causes someone to become mute is how to cure it. There are a lot of spells that say they remove various conditions. Heal for instance should work against a normal condition that causes muteness. Curses are a bit more specific to remove. Not necessarily more difficult, just more specific.

[deuxhero]

You can also inflict minor spellblights. Making someone speak backwards and give spell failure is easily within the power of those

Quote:

Caster Croak: The afflicted spellcaster's throat or mouth is magically constricted. The spellcaster can barely make her words heard, and then only with great effort. A creature under this affect can only make itself heard by others by spending a swift action to focus its will on speech. Casting spells with a verbal component has a 20% chance of spell failure, and the save DCs of any spells she casts with the language-dependent descriptor are reduced by 4. Spell-like abilities are not affected by this spellblight because they lack verbal components. Shouting and screaming is impossible while the creature is affected by this spellblight.

Quote:

Lassitude: Whenever a spellcaster with this spellblight casts a spell, she must make a concentration check (DC 15 + twice the spell level of the spell being cast). If she fails the check, the spellcaster takes 1 point of nonlethal damage per spell level (or 1 point of nonlethal damage when casting a 0-level spell or 1 point per 2 caster levels if using a spell-like ability). This nonlethal damage cannot be reduced in any way so long as the spellcaster suffers from lassitude.

Both induce spell failure chance

And while we're mentioning the subject of giving spellblights via Bestow Curse, this one is useful for keeping casters prisoner within RAW and without particularly high level spells.

Quote:

Ritualistic Obsession: A spellcaster afflicted with ritualistic obsession adds unnecessary gestures to her spellcasting activities. Any spell without a somatic component (even a spell cast with the Still Spell feat) now requires one, and any spell that already has a somatic component requires two free hands rather than one. Spell-like abilities now require a somatic component. The extra complexity increases swift action casting times to a standard action, standard action casting times to 1 round, and 1 round casting times to 2 rounds. Other casting times are not increased. The extra focus does serve to increase the efficacy of the caster's spells. All save DCs for spells and spell-like abilities that have their casting time increased with ritualistic obsession are increased by 1.