Hello everyone!
I know that I am not the first to attempt this and that it can probably be done better but I want to post it here to just share the plan i have so far and get everyone's input on how I should change this. Disclaimer: I am excluding true immortality such as the reincarnated druid, Lich acquired template, or other such revivification shenanaganary for the purpose of creating someone who just wont die. NOW I PROUDLY PRESENT, SQUEE THE IMMORTAL GOBLIN
20-point Buy
Race: Goblin
Altered racial trait: Tree Runner
STR:5
DEX:18 (boost it at 4th and 8th to 20)
Con:12
INT:12
WIS:14
CHA:14
2 levels of Monk(Kata Master) (Monk becomes ex-monk at lvl 4 when become Barb)
+3 to all saves
+WIS to AC
BF: Unarmed strike, Deflect Arrows, Combat Reflexes
Panche Pool (2/day- used for derring do)
1 lvl of Spiritualist(Dedication Phantom)
+2 to will
BF: Iron Will (from phantom)
+4 against mind affecting effects
-few tiny spells (CLW and Mage Armor!)
X levels of Urban Invulnerable Rager (currently 4 on paper but I lvl here)
+4 dex Controlled Rage
+1/2 Barbarian lvl DMG reduction
+endure elements
+RAGE powers:Superstition, Renewed Vigor ( will pick up increased dmg reduction and regenerating Vigor)
Feats:
Roll With it
Weapon Finesse
(2) Godless Healing
Summary: So I understand its not perfect or truly immortal but its a low level example of being pretty close. Stupid high acrobatics from being Goblin alows roll with it to shrug off a attack almost every turn and since he gets pushed away there is never really a full round of attacks. Deflect arrows is a baby cushion against ranged attacks but the DR and the self healing are their to help with that also. The saves are my protection against magic (Will +14 against mind affecting and +10 against other magic) and the Panche pool helps make those acrobatic checks every once in awhile. Squee uses no weapons or armor(Mainly for thematic reasons). Items are Ring of Ferocious action(To help roll with it) and Amulet of the Mighty Fists(agility to fists).
So what do you all think? Is my little Squee going to survive out in the big bad world? If not, how do we protect him? Thank you all for reading my post:P
It seems like the fort save is good but not amazing and Str damage poison renders Squee helpless easily. Admittedly unless its inhaled its hard to administer poison him.
If the initial attack does less than 5 points of damage, you don't move. Mobs of creatures are Squee's natural enemy. You'll only get 1 immediate reaction each round, so a mob of grunts get 1 less hit per round.
But possibly the most likely way Squee will die is either to a grappling monster, swallowed whole, or by falling. Mainly due to his Roll With It making him ping pong off a cliff.
You might consider getting a Ring of Feather Falling.
My idea was that since usually all the enemies act on the same initiative, I could have them all finish their movement, roll with it out of their provoking a few AoO,but then be out of the range of the other attacks. Also I get to choose my direction I travel with roll with it so I should be safe from cliffs. The grappling is an excellent point though. I'll watch to kite those creatures or use My crazy Escape Artist checks to skip that issue hopefully.
Squee doesn't have Uncanny Dodge, which will be problematic.
usually all enemies act on the same initiative? why? doesnt happen in my games, for example.
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Even if enemies act on the same initiative, they shouldn't all move and then all attack. Each creatures turn should be completed before the next goes.
I'll admit that as a GM for quickness of play I have sometimes moved them all to where they are going and the rolled the attacks, but that was only because it wasn't going to matter, certainly I wouldn't do that if a character was expected to move in response to an enemies attack.
The biggest issue that I see with the character though is who is going to care whether he killed or not. He is only slightly more dangerous to an opponent alive then dead. Just ignore him until the rest of the party is dead, and then deal with him.
Okay, so after reading through you all's wonder responses I think I've made a fair few changes that should help a bit. Make the first three levels Invested Regent/Monk of the Seven Winds. Grab feats (from class or leveling) in listed order
Roll With It,unarmed Strike Deflect Arrows, Endurance, Diehard.
Then take levels in Invulnerable Rager/Urban Barbarian. Grab Stalwart at level 5. Take the rage power chain up to Spell Breaker. Hopefully grab Monk Robe's and Amulet of the Mighty fists so that my unarmed is 1d10+Dex.
These changes hope to accomplish the following.
1. Invested Regent is just their to push saves a little farther. In combat I would not spend every Swift action buffing will, but situationally it would be helpful.
2.Monk of the Seven Winds let's him grab Endurance for free (needed for Stalwart) and boosts his damage a little with the immediate action attack(hopefully an enchanted weapon).
3.Stalwart does wonders for helping against swarms of smaller enemies.
4. The Spellbreaker Rage power chain actually gives Squee combat purpose as he can wreak havoc when flung into the face of a spellcaster hiding in backlines. This also let's him more directly address the issue of his imperfect saves.
Issues still needing addressing.
1. Grapple creatures could end him if get past his DR.
2. Being impactful in combat. Is he effective enough as a backline harasser? Or do you still believe he will be ignored?
Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding of how enemies should act in combat in relation to initiative. That being said I believe increasining his DR and actually playing smart should still make avoiding attacks not to difficult.
Any more suggestions on how to protect little Squee are welcome. Also any critisizm on the builds functionality and weak points are open to discussion also.
Then take levels in Invulnerable Rager/Urban Barbarian. Grab Stalwart at level 5. Take the rage power chain up to Spell Breaker. Hopefully grab Monk Robe's and Amulet of the Mighty fists so that my unarmed is 1d10+Dex.
Don't take Invulnerable Rager, as that archetype forfeits Uncanny Dodge, which this character would need to maintain it's "all-in" investment in Dex bonuses to AC.
Then take levels in Invulnerable Rager/Urban Barbarian. Grab Stalwart at level 5. Take the rage power chain up to Spell Breaker. Hopefully grab Monk Robe's and Amulet of the Mighty fists so that my unarmed is 1d10+Dex.Don't take Invulnerable Rager, as that archetype forfeits Uncanny Dodge, which this character would need to maintain it's "all-in" investment in Dex bonuses to AC.
I know from experience that Uncanny Dodge truly is a life saver, but that being said this build just cannot function without a decent amount of DR, which will not be possible without Invulnerable Rager. I'm not saying that dropping Invulnerable Rager for Uncanny Dodge is wrong, it's just not the path I'm comfortable taking. DR will apply in many more situations than Uncanny Dodge will. Uncanny Dodge does not retain my Dex to AC of I am immobile, and being immobilized is already an issue in this build so I'd prefer not to double up on my weak spot. I'm sure the build could be redone in a way that Uncanny Dodge is the right choice over DR, but where the build stands now, I do not believe that it is the right choice as of now.
I know from experience that Uncanny Dodge truly is a life saver, but that being said this build just cannot function without a decent amount of DR, which will not be possible without Invulnerable Rager. I'm not saying that dropping Invulnerable Rager for Uncanny Dodge is wrong, it's just not the path I'm comfortable taking.
As an all-in dex goblin, your AC should be so high that about the only reason an opponent is reliably hitting you is if they've managed to puke out your dexterity bonus to AC.
I know from experience that Uncanny Dodge truly is a life saver, but that being said this build just cannot function without a decent amount of DR, which will not be possible without Invulnerable Rager. I'm not saying that dropping Invulnerable Rager for Uncanny Dodge is wrong, it's just not the path I'm comfortable taking.As an all-in dex goblin, your AC should be so high that about the only reason an opponent is reliably hitting you is if they've managed to puke out your dexterity bonus to AC.
You are totally correct. The sad part is the job of this build isn't to never be hit. If I was just attempting to minimize damage from ranged or melee attacks I would totally agree with you, but I'm also trying to minimize damage from AoE attacks, evokation/damage spells, debuffs(not real damage but you get the point). And at higher levels of play it isn't likely that misses will be more common than hits. What this build is attempting to do is plug as many holes as it can as effectively as it can. Uncanny Dodge is great at plugging one hole,but takes away from my effort to plug in the rest. I'm sorry, but I truly do not think Uncanny Dodge is right for this build. That being said, seeming that you talk with experience of dexterous type characters, what other suggestions do you have when dealing with the those struggles of being immobilized? Your help and experience is most welcome.
Raid this build for ideas. High AC and Evasion, and will have Uncanny Dodge next level (with 2nd in a rage class, or earlier by swapping a level to pack that in earlier).
2. Being impactful in combat. Is he effective enough as a backline harasser? Or do you still believe he will be ignored?
Explain to me how you think this works.
It seems to me that this character is at his best when the biggest hitting thing on the opposition team wastes his turn trying to damage him. But that means he is right in the face of the hard hitting guy, not somewhere in the back line.
I just don't see what the character can effectively do if the other side chooses not to waste time attacking him, but I certainly am willing to be wrong, just walk me through on what you think he would be doing and how that would be effective.
2. Being impactful in combat. Is he effective enough as a backline harasser? Or do you still believe he will be ignored?Explain to me how you think this works.
It seems to me that this character is at his best when the biggest hitting thing on the opposition team wastes his turn trying to damage him. But that means he is right in the face of the hard hitting guy, not somewhere in the back line.
I just don't see what the character can effectively do if the other side chooses not to waste time attacking him, but I certainly am willing to be wrong, just walk me through on what you think he would be doing and how that would be effective.
There are plenty of ways to be effective in combat, but I am not going to pretend that my little goblin could do any of them better than someone else. His goal is to be able to stay up as long as he can and be a real pain to take down. You make a great point that if they ignore him he is useless. At that point he would just be a over glorified flanking buddy for the party rogue. He is a pest. He is annoying as heck and could really benefit from the Antagonize feat if he had the charisma to make it work. His damage is nothing compared to a true DPS build but still isn't trab(4d10+24 across his attacks).
Ideally, his job is to be annoying and eat up attacks and attention. The smart choice is to ignore him because he isn't a really heavy threat. I gave him Spellbreaker to try and make him a threat to spellcasters and I am looking to give him Come and Get Me so that he can dish out WAYYYYY more damage and eat up WAYYYY more attacks when roll with it sends him flying across the battlefield.
All of that to say, his job will be to eat attacks and deal spot damage where it's needed. He isn't the best at it, and it's not a common role needed in a party. If Come and Get Me, Spellbreaker, and Roll With It can't pressure things enough then I don't know what else even has a chance of remotely making him effective in combat.
Fair enough, if you understand the limitations and still think it would be fun (and the other players are cool with the concept) then more power to you.
Fair enough, if you understand the limitations and still think it would be fun (and the other players are cool with the concept) then more power to you.
In all honesty, when I made this concept last December it was a joke attempt. I've been playing it since Janurary and it's a blast (albiet few changes- 25 Point Buy, no spell breaker or Invested Regent, but add the Panther style feat chain for a usual 10 attacks a turn). I was hoping when I saw this thread coming back to life that a few people would have found what I did and do it better. It's a blast to play and and crazy fun to RP. I'm still looking for answers to stuns and grapples though:/