I'll be doing a Way of the Wicked game soon with some friends. I'll be doing a Unholy Barrister Cleric of Asmodeous but taking the prestige class of Diabolist as soon as possible (The older version, not the updated version of the prestige class)
One main thing of the class is the imp companion. What are some good uses for them? What would be some good feats to go with those uses? We already have a unchained rogue, a mesmerist, and a vigilante (With a small horde of undead and devils for bodyguard mooks) for reference of party comp.
So how could I most efficiently squeeze every drop of usefulness out of my animal companion?
I assume you've already looked up DMDM's Guide to the Diabolist? That goes into Diabolist builds in some detail. There are two versions of the guide, one a document and one a post; you can find them both right here, along with some other stuff that might be of interest. The Guide has a couple of paragraphs specifically on the imp, and then mentions possible tricks uses for it several other places. (For instance, the 2nd level cleric spell Shared Sacrifice? That's an excellent buff to cast on yourself and your imp just before going into combat.)
Also, good call on doing the Original Recipe Diabolist. The 2017 version is inferior both mechanically and thematically.
Oh, and: it sounds like you're already well along the road with your WotW campaign.? So, you might also want to check out the sections on spells and magic item selection. And if you're not doing it already, make sure to check out the human / tiefling favored class bonus for clerics -- +1 / level to overcome SR. Trust me, that's likely to be much more useful than an extra hp or skill rank.
At one point I played an indolent bloatmage transmuter with an imp familiar, and other than having the imp take care of a whole host of mundane tasks, it served as a good vehicle for the various touch spells of the transmutation school. The imp's invisibility and other defenses meant that it could survive as a striker/debuffer while larger, more imposing party members generally drew the attention of enemies.
T hough it's not on the cleric spell list, the Hellmouth Lash spell was particularly useful.
Well, not on the road yet actually. That's just the party comp at the moment and it's subject to change. However, I just wanted to get a head start on ideas is all
As for the DMDM's guide, yes actually! I loved the series and have looked over all the binding guides and diabolist guide multiple times. It's actually what got me so hooked on the diabolist class to begin with! They're so well written and helpful so thanks!
As for the human racial trait thing, it's only a +1 per rank to overcome SR of outsiders. It's a good trait but since i'm a divine caster, i'll have access to planar ally, not binding. Planar ally doesn't offer a save nor SR so it doesn't seem like the most needed trait. If there are a ton of outsiders in Way of the Wicked, I might grab it. I'm not too familiar with the campaign in all reality.
I've considered it as a wand dispenser but i'm not sure how i'd build them in term of feats for such a thing. As well having considered a good touch debuffer like Duck mentioned!
It would also help to describe my type of GM since it might effect some things, like nonsensical ideas or the likes. He's fairly serious about all the mechanics in pathfinder, simply put. From remembering to bring rations to eat to carry capacity to even the details on how Planar Ally would function. For this campaign, he's taking a liking to your guide on planar ally and has decided to use it for the guidelines for the campaign, Muir.
Okay. If you're just getting started... how shall I put this without spoilers. Outsiders won't be a big thing at first, any more than they are in a normal low level campaign. But there will be some point in the next six books (if you last that long) where you will encounter a lot of outsiders, yes. That's probably not a big surprise. So it's probably worth your time to invest a couple of FCB levels at *some* point, even if not right away. At low levels, sure, take the hp or the skill rank.
At lower levels, the Planar Ally spells kinda suck. They're just not very cost effective in terms of gp spent per punch delivered, and you're stuck with whatever creatures Hell chooses to send you. That said, it gets steadily better as you level up -- the price goes up as a linear equation, the creature power increases quadratically. So at high levels it's actually quite good. The great advantage of PA is what it says on the tin: these creatures are ALLIES. They're not bound to serve. Okay, they're devils and they may not like you very much, but they're still your allies. They're not being magically compelled against their will and they shouldn't be looking for every possible loophole to screw you over. This is actually even more important given that your DM is reading my Guide and agreeing with it. My Guide assumes that Planar Binding is a high risk, high gain sort of enterprise... So make sure you discuss the difference in advance.
Cost is an issue, so look at anything that can bring the cost down. The Guide has some suggestions, including a feat and a trait. More generally, I would say plan out your feats several levels in advance. Even if you're human, clerics don't get a lot of feat slots and you'll want to carefully consider how to use each one.
WotW is a great AP. Obviously I am not objective -- you'll see my name as an editor on some of the volumes. But still, I think Gary did an amazing job there. The quality stays quite high throughout. As a player, you'll have a lot of different challenges thrown at you. It's a fun ride!
One of my players in WotW is playing a tiefling Fiendish vessel/Diabolist, so he has TWO imps at his shoulders. He has the companion imp take the shapechange tricks and uses it for combat since it is so easy to replace. The familiar imp is mainly heal bot/ focus for Channel Evil. He has lost that one twice.
Thank you for the input Wagner! Thanks for trying not to spoil the adventure path as well Douglas, it's much appreciated, as well as the reminders too!
Another question i've been pondering is how to care for my army in terms of HP? As an Unholy Barriester, I can heal those who pledge their loyalty to Asmodeous so it isn't too hard to imagine I can heal my devils a few times with channel energy. However, what would be the best option for more long term aftercare? No devils from what i'm aware can heal their fellow devils.
One of my players in WotW is playing a tiefling Fiendish vessel/Diabolist, so he has TWO imps at his shoulders. He has the companion imp take the shapechange tricks and uses it for combat since it is so easy to replace. The familiar imp is mainly heal bot/ focus for Channel Evil. He has lost that one twice.
I guess this is where I bring up what may be my strangest theorycrafting idea to date.
The Two-Imp Debuff:
Throw a feat at improved familiar to get an imp. It's helpful, but not necessary, if you're human and choose the Eye for Talent alternate racial (+2 on any ability score for familiars and companions.) Max out your ranks in Intimidate. Your imp familiar gets to use these ranks.
Now dip a level of Diabolist. Hey, you just got an imp companion! Now you have two imps, one one each shoulder.
Unfortunately, Intimidate is not a class skill for imps. And worse yet, as Tiny creatures imps will suffer -4 on their Intimidate (demoralize) checks against all larger creatures. That sounds pretty bad. But on the other hand, two imps means you get to check twice! Leverage this. Let's say you took Eye for Talent -- +2 Cha for each imp. And then have each imp take Skill Focus (Intimidate).
How does this play out in practice? Well, at level N each imp will have N ranks. So up until 10th level, their Intimidate checks will be at N+2 (+3 for their 16 Cha, +3 for the feat, -4 for their size). At 9th level, that's two checks at +11. What are some typical demoralize DCs for monsters you might face at this level? Rakshasa, 21; nosferatu, 22; young adult black dragon, 25; frost giant, 26. With two checks at +11, your odds of demoralizing these guys are, rakshasa - 80%, nosferatu - 75%, dragon - 51%, and giant - 44%.
That's actually pretty good. And once you hit 10th level and your imps pick up an additional +3 from the feat, your odds get very nice indeed. You have a well better than even chance of demoralizing any monster of your CR, and a near certainty of success against large groups of lower level (CR-2 or 3) mooks. I wouldn't say this is a fantastic tactic; it requires a bit of planning and investment, and the short range on Intimidation (30') is a real limitation. But it's definitely viable, especially at level 11 and up. Intimidate is a fine debuff (-2 on attacks and saves) that ignores SR and all other defensive abilities. And of course, there's the visual: you walk into a room full of monsters, and your two imps start jumping up and down on your shoulders, screeching like insane apes, and all the monsters become demoralized...
If you can convince your DM to let you swap some other skill for Intimidate -- ha ha, it's just an imp, just having some fun here, man -- this can go from pretty good to sick OP. But it works even without that.
Another question i've been pondering is how to care for my army in terms of HP? As an Unholy Barriester, I can heal those who pledge their loyalty to Asmodeous so it isn't too hard to imagine I can heal my devils a few times with channel energy. However, what would be the best option for more long term aftercare? No devils from what i'm aware can heal their fellow devils.
No, but they heal in the normal manner -- 1 hp per hit die per day, or 2/day if they have complete rest and inactivity. There are also a bunch of spells that you can use for mass healing -- Greater Path of Glory is particularly good here.
And also, don't forget the humble Heal skill! Heal (Treat Deadly Wounds) and Heal (Long Term Care) tend to get overlooked, but if you have some down time they can be surprisingly effective. If you can consistently make the checks and you can spend a full day, then you can gain 5 hp / hit die back in 24 hours without spending any magic at all. Note that if nobody in the party feels like investing the ranks, Heal is the sort of skill where you really should be able to find a henchman, hireling, or slave, a commoner or Expert who has it maxed.
Wands of cure light are really cheap at higher levels. Wands of Infernal healing might be difficult to come by in Talingarde. And also, aftercare? If your minions are too weak to keep fighting for the greater glory of Asmodeus they deserve to die ;-)
@Douglas Muir 406 some GMs might not allow changing the familiars feats. In your example have both imps taken the Dazzling display to intimidate all the monsters?
@Bo'Galth The Green
If you are interested in the Intimidate tactic and want to triple on the intimidate, the Damnation feat chain is great. It is great for other reasons too (immunity to 2 elements? having your alignament be disguised in paladin-land? sounds great!) but you get +4 to intimidate, can cause stronger fear effects and can intimidate as a swift action. The cost is merely your soul but so what, you were damned the day you took the mantle of Unholy Barrister.
But seriously, avoid dying. I strongly advice you to petition the GM to use the Dark Favor points that are discussed in the product thread for the first book in WotW. They are basically Hero points and can be used for similar purposes. In my WotW they received the Dark Favor points at third level after completing Act 2. I do not allow any Hero point feats or spells, they receive what Asmodeus seems fit to give them, usually after completing a major goal in the campaign, such as after the finale of the first book. It has given me freedom to seriously threaten them without the danger of having the campaign disrupted too much.
@Douglas Muir 406 some GMs might not allow changing the familiars feats. In your example have both imps taken the Dazzling display to intimidate all the monsters?
I'm not sure if there's RAW on this (I never got the familiar / companion splatbook). But I would, at a minimum, allow changing a familiar's feats at the same time you change your own.
Quote:
If you are interested in the Intimidate tactic and want to triple on the intimidate, the Damnation feat chain is great. It is great for other reasons too (immunity to 2 elements? having your alignament be disguised in paladin-land? sounds great!) but you get +4 to intimidate, can cause stronger fear effects and can intimidate as a swift action. The cost is merely your soul but so what, you were damned the day you took the mantle of Unholy Barrister.
Discuss with your DM, but -- very minor spoiler -- in the first half of Book One you'll meet an NPC who you can ask for advice about negotiating Damnation or some similar feat.
Minor spoiler:
That would be Cardinal Thorn, who is (he tells you this right up front) the High Priest of Asmodeus in Talingarde. Your DM will decide how to play him, but I always had the Cardinal be very paternal, kindly even. At least during the first two books... He would refer to the PCs as "my dear children" and say things like "as your spiritual father, I would suggest". And he was, for the first two books, generous and open handed with the PCs when they actually succeeded at a mission.
I cranked up the creepiness factor on his background. Two parties didn't care, but one party spent a lot of time and attention trying to piece together the backstory.
Well, peering through all this, I can show off what feats i'd want to grab currently. This list is in no particular order.
The DM is using the optional Hero Point system (Although, he's renaming them 'villain'points.) I have a human and instead of a feat, I selected the alternate racial feat of Heroic (Which gives an additional hero point per level)
Hero's fortune= Bump up my cap to 5 and get an additional hero point (And if it's my first feat, have 3 hero points at level 1)
Luck of heroes= Help preserve my hero points
Blood of Heroes= Gain an additional hero point (3 per level if combined with heroic)
I have these three feats since, with my character, i'm the 'leader'. What I mean is, I rolled Nobility for my background. With the party, my guy's background connected everyone before we even enter the prison. I thought it'd be both thematic and useful to have all these points.
Spell focus (conjuration)-Prerequisite for augment calling
Augment calling-Reduce the cost of planar ally a bit
Contract Master-Reduce the cost more and ensure they do minimal harm to my party in case.
Devil's pact-Look at Priest's pact.
Priest's pact-Both are thematic and useful considering the party all vows loyalty to Asmodeous.
Craft wondrous item-Not only have I been told the campaign has a lot of downtime, it's a feat requirement for the chance to become a lich in this campaign. What better way to please Asmodeous than to have an eternal servant to ensure damnation to many
Command undead- This is the only feat i'm not too sure about. Not only am I going to have 10 levels of cleric but i'm not sure just how useful it's going to be. Until I get planar Ally, I was going to use undead and have a few bulky undead at later levels.
Make sure with the GM that this is ok. I banned Leadership and Vile leadership and gave them minions and cohorts for free in book 2 when there is an in-game reason to do so.
This looks very reasonable. If you were a wizard I'd say, take SF: Conjuration at 3rd level so you can use it for stuff like Web, Hungry Pit and Glitterdust. But there are a lot fewer good save-requiring conjuration spells for a cleric. So this could be your 7th level feat, allowing you to grab Augment Calling at 9th. Note that Augment Calling is good for cash savings right away, but it might not actually give you a power increase until 11th level, because there aren't a lot of good devil choices with 7 or 8 HD. (In fact, I'm not sure there are any that are canonical in the sense of appearing in a Bestiary. There are like three from the Tome of Horrors.)
Becoming a lich... okay, not really a spoiler: since this is an evil campaign, it does explore options for becoming a vampire or a lich. That's probably not a huge surprise. However, they are options, and your DM may or may not choose to go that route. Discuss with him in advance.
Well! I finally got to the long waited point of becoming apart of the prestige class (Really soon anyway). Decided to contact Big Daddy Asmodeus for an imp to help us finish up a task before we get to level 6.
I was wondering. Is there any animal companion archetype that fits especially well with an Imp? Also! The DM decided to give the Imp a steroid shot or two. Not only will it be an Imp Consular but it'll have the Advanced template slapped onto it~!
