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Sleeping gives Con Mod x Level healing. Treat Wounds does the same with a tiny chance of more on a critical success.
What?! Why is it so awful? It's on average 10% of your max hit points, or in other words half of one encounter. If a player doesn't boost Con then it's even less than that. You might as well not get any healing at all since it's almost completely useless.
Am I missing something important here? Why are the shoehorning everyone into boosting Con as high as they can? What's wrong with 5e's hit die system, and why doesn't Paizo adopt/adapt things that are proven to work well (I'm looking at you, Vancian spellcasting *glare*)? o_O
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Sleeping gives Con Mod x Level healing. Treat Wounds does the same with a tiny chance of more on a critical success.
What?! Why is it so awful? It's on average 10% of your max hit points, or in other words half of one encounter. If a player doesn't boost Con then it's even less than that. You might as well not get any healing at all since it's almost completely useless.Am I missing something important here? Why are the shoehorning everyone into boosting Con as high as they can? What's wrong with 5e's hit die system, and why doesn't Paizo adopt/adapt things that are proven to work well (I'm looking at you, Vancian spellcasting *glare*)? o_O
This is a hilarious thread, given the number of people complaining treat wounds is OP.
It's free healing that can be potentially used an unlimited number of times per day. It only takes 10 minutes, which means it can potentially be done 6 times in the time it takes you to short rest once in 5e. And it lets one character treat up to six creatures at once while they repair gear or ID items or whatever. How good do you want this to be? Especially with all healing magic being so tremendously buffed?
As for why Con may need a bump, we now get max HD so having a higher con represents a significantly smaller fraction of your HP total, and it currently doesn't even affect recovery saving throws. It otherwise affects nothing but fortitude saves, which is rather boring.
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Why is it so awful?
Compared with older editions of D&D (which seemed to have an attitude of "You got stabbed! Do you expect to get over that in a few days? Without magic or modern medicine, you should consider yourself lucky if you don't get an infection and die.") it's pretty good.
We played In Pale Mountain's Shadow only recently, so we got all the updates including Treat Wounds. I'm pretty sure this is the main reason why the adventure was not super challenging. The group's cleric took care of in-combat healing, while my druid used Treat Wounds out of combat. I could only crit fail on a natural 1, and a failure only meant a waste of 10 minutes. So I basically brought the group up to max HP after each fight. Taking a couple of times 10 minutes to do this is a lot faster and easier than resting for the night.
To me, Treat Wounds is OP in 2 ways: No limits to the number of times it can be used + no monetary or other kind of cost. Ways this could be changed include limited supplies (like uses of a healing kit), but that may be annoying to track. Another, more basic way to do this is to say the healed creatures are bolstered no matter what the roll result is.
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If we're going to do sweeping changes, such as with a new major version of the rules, I'd like to fix health.
I think your health should be CON + HPs. HPs represent energy used to avoid being hurt. Various forms of healing and resting restore HPs somewhat quickly. As you level up, you get more HPs. Sleeping for 8 hours would give all HPs back. Breaks for a meal, or a nap, would give back some substantial HPs back, perhaps 10% per hour.
Damage that got into your CON would slowly heal only through long periods of rest (days or weeks) under the care of a trained healer, or perhaps with higher level healing spells depending on the setting the DM wants to make.
Either way, adventure and encounter design is the most important aspect of hit points and recovery.
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Saying, "we go back to town and rest" isn't any harder than saying "we all sit around for ten minutes while the dude with medicine and a healers kit treats our wounds."
Depends a lot on the story. Are you on a tight deadline? A loose deadline? No deadline? Are there enemies actively searching for you? Is going back to town a three day journey across wandering-monster-infested wilderness?
But think I agree with your main point. A story where you rest for twenty minutes between two battles feels better to me than a story where you rest for 23 hours and 55 minutes between two battles.
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If anything just add "Charges" to a healer's kit, each use of Treat Wounds expends one charge, you can either purchase supplies to refill your kit, if you're even in a town, or use Nature to procure a limited amount of charges worth in herbs, and other natural replacements to fill two charges, or four on a critical success.
That would bring back some of the 'healing wand' issues they were trying to get away from.
As you level up, the cost of replacement kits would become relatively tiny, and everyone would just carry around a huge/magical bag of healer's kits to ensure they never run out.
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I must admit, it never occurred to me to just use Treat Wounds over and over again. My group was treating it like a Short Rest in 5e where you only do it once between encounters if you really need to. Personally I like that idea better than using Treat Wounds ten times in a row. Just make it super good and only allow it to me used once or twice a day. Also, make sleeping better.
Also, unlike Cure Light, healing via the Treat Wounds check scales reasonably well with level. And kits being depleted over time due to using up bandages, medicines etc is something that people can easily grok as a simple reflection of what they understand from reality.
And yeah, I agree that it both makes more sense and feels better thematically for treating Wounds to work like a short rest and only happen every so often, rather than being spammed back to back multiple times.
10 uses per kit? Is that a new thing in errata or did I completely miss that before? I couldn't find anything on the amount of uses per kit.
Could you post a pg number for that?
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10 uses per kit? Is that a new thing in errata or did I completely miss that before? I couldn't find anything on the amount of uses per kit.
Could you post a pg number for that?
The above posters were just suggesting to make the healing kit a limited-use item as a potential way to curb Treat Wounds' power. That's not in the present rules.
Oh ok.
I love the fact that it takes time to do this since it can make for some great race against the clock adventures. Imagine "City of Golden Death" with this kind of timing being implemented. :D
I just ran a session where sleeping for the night healed everyone to full, but Treat Wounds was extended to an hour so they wouldn't spam it. It worked fantastically and everyone enjoyed the session a lot more because of it. Everything just went so much more smoothly, but there were still plenty of clutch moments.
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How did they like the Wounded condition in that case? It carries over unless you treat wounds or heal to full and then rest 10 minutes. That means that any scenario where folks are dropped to 0 leaves them vulnerable unless they can A) rest for an hour, or B) expend valuable resources to shorten that time to an hour.
Which may not be a bad thing, but it is a thing.
I mean, "Constitution makes you heal faster" makes a lot of thematic sense and it's not like the stat was doing a lot of different things before. I figure tying Con to healing is better than trying to base a skill on it, or something sillier like "Con to Hit".
I'll add that I feel pretty strongly that Treat Wounds should have its time tied to other post combat activities-- repairing dents, ID'ing items, doing forensics, thoroughly searching a room. I think more out of combat activities should be tied to whatever increment of time that is, so everyone in the party has something to do during it.
I didn't really mind when that increment was an hour for ID'ing items or repairing dents (though that would seem excessive for things like searching a room) but the community as a whole seems to have spoken on that one, and people didn't like it. So if 10 minutes is going to be the increment, let it be the increment for everyone.