Spell Manifestations Clarifications Needed


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As early as the first update, the developers made sure to point out that spells were supposed to have manifestations (specifically, visual ones).

First of all, bravo for remembering this. Having it be an intended part of the game from the get-go is leagues better than the clunky "oh-it-was-totally-there-the-whole-time" implementation of mid-P1E.

But, it's not enough. We need to know a whole lot more specifics about this. Firstly, the Barbarian feat Spell Sunder (page 60) makes AFAIK the first mention in the book of spell manifestations (the example in the text is the wall created by a Wall of Fire). The update, however, suggests that "manifestations" is not supposed to be in reference to the observable end-result of a spell, but rather an observable quality of the act of casting the spell. So which is it? This seems like it needs to be cleaned up.

Secondly, let's talk about the manifestations themselves. We know they're supposed to be visual. The artwork typically conveys this as a glowy circle of eldritch script around the caster's wiggling fingers. But how big? Does being invisible mask it (completely, partly, or at all)? Is this "spells", "spells and spell powers", "anything magical, including items", or what?

How bright? Though before we get to there, and despite the artwork, we actually have to nail down whether these things even emit light or not. On page 194, under Spell Traits, we're told "the effect of the Light spell has the light trait, but providing a Somatic or Material Casting action while casting it isn't a light effect". Which would seem to indicate that they don't; the result of casting a Light spell glows, but the act of casting does not glow. So which is it?


Tectorman wrote:
How bright? Though before we get to there, and despite the artwork, we actually have to nail down whether these things even emit light or not. On page 194, under Spell Traits, we're told "the effect of the Light spell has the light trait, but providing a Somatic or Material Casting action while casting it isn't a light effect". Which would seem to indicate that they don't; the result of casting a Light spell glows, but the act of casting does not glow. So which is it?

The answer is that the glowy runescript is actually an Unlit Material, so it neither responds to, nor effects, the light level of other objects.

Basically this (that's a sphere on the left).

Scarab Sages

Yeah, this really needs to be fleshed out early.


I'd agree this needs to be fleshed out; they remembered to include it, which is good, but it really feels like the rules just aren't there. I also feel it's a bit overly punitive on illusion and enchantment spells, especially given how heavily the schools have been nerfed this edition.

Conceal spell also annoys me; it's a feat tax for intrigue campaigns, it's class-locked so classes like the bard need to multiclass to grab it, and it requires you to be fully invested in both stealth and deception to work, and even then its incredibly unreliable since passing two back-to-back checks is very hard to pull off. This is just ludicrously underpowered for how much setup is needed to make it work.


Tectorman wrote:
First of all, bravo for remembering this. Having it be an intended part of the game from the get-go is leagues better than the clunky "oh-it-was-totally-there-the-whole-time" implementation of mid-P1E.

To give partial credit where it's due, it actually WAS there all the time, right from day 1. You just had to read Perception, Spellcraft, Spellcasting, Interrupting, and Dispel Magic, then parse it all and extrapolate unwritten rules. But, if you did that, you arrived at exactly the same place that the devs clarified years after they released the CRB.

And, the answers to your questions are in the playtest book too, you just need more extrapolation and maybe a little bit of assumption.

The only problem with the Barbarian Sunder Spell is that you are assuming the word "manifestation" is a game term, but the developers clearly are not using it that way. It's just an English word meaning "something that is readily perceived by the senses and especially by the sense of sight" (Merriam Webster). The light show of glowing eldritch symbols that appears during casting is a manifestation that can be perceived. The actual Wall of Fire is a manifestation that can be perceived after it the spellcasting is finished. The Sunder Spell ability makes it clear which kind of manifestation the developers mean in this context: the actual wall of fire that manifests after the caster is done casting the spell.

Talking about the manifestations themselves requires us to know how you're using that word, but from your context, you obviously mean the light show during casting. How bright is it? Let's make a little assumption from darkness, concealment, and invisibility: if casting a spell gave off enough light that the light can been on its own, then it would probably turn a concealed or unseen spellcaster into a seen spellcaster, at least during the casting. There is no mention of anything like this, despite having explicit mentions of other examples. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that, without any rules update, these kinds of manifestations are only as visible as the caster is. E.g., a concealed caster in a dark room doesn't become visible by casting a spell that lights up the room, lights up the caster, or even surrounds the concealed caster in a veritable cocoon of glowing runes. This assumption is fully confirmed by the text of the Light spell.

Having said this, I fully agree that a paragraph making all this very clear would be a great idea; players should not have to collate from multiple rules, extrapolate, then top it off with assumptions, just to derive a rule; it should be clarified explicitly.

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