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So, I love the stories Paizo tells with his APs.
DMing an AP is a huge commitment. It takes a lot of time if you, like me, can play only once every six seeks.
I really would like to see shorter AP, like in Starfinder.
Will/Could this be a thing in the future?
And sorry, if this topic has come up earlier...
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So, I love the stories Paizo tells with his APs.
DMing an AP is a huge commitment. It takes a lot of time if you, like me, can play only once every six seeks.
I really would like to see shorter AP, like in Starfinder.
Will/Could this be a thing in the future?
And sorry, if this topic has come up earlier...
Play Starfinder. It's really, really good.
Just run the first three parts of an AP - or the last three. Or three from across three different APs. It's not that difficult.
There are several APs that can be run as 2-4 episode arcs (instead of the full 6) with minimal modification.
Council of Thieves: Make a less powerful Ilnerik (CR 10-11 instead of 15) the BBEG and have the PCs go directly from Delvehaven (What Lies in Dust) to facing him. The main plot is to rid Westcrown of the shadow beasts.
Kingmaker: End the campaign after Blood for Blood. You could even skip Stolen Land and run a three part arc (Rivers Run Red, The Varnhold Vanishing, and Blood for Blood) with the PCs starting as level 4 rulers.
Serpent's Skull: End the campaign after securing control of Saventh-Yhi at the end of City of Seven Spears, skipping the presence of Juliver (and the link to rest of the AP) altogether.
Carrion Crown: You can pretty much run each of the episodes in this AP independently of each other.
Jade Regent: Instead of the goal being to put Ameiko on the throne, the goal for her to gain some mystic heirloom. Run the first three episodes (The Brinewall Legacy, Night of Frozen Shadows, and The Hungry Storm) pretty much the same, but after traveling over the Crown of the World the PCs participate in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament (reducing the challenges slightly for 10th level PCs, instead of 11th level).
Skull & Shackles: End the campaign after earning a seat on the Pirate Council at the end of Tempest Rising.
Shattered Star, Reign of Winter, and Wrath of the Righteous: These APs don't work very well as shorter arcs.
Mummy's Mask: End the campaign after defeating Nebta-Khufre at the end of Empty Graves, ending the threat of new undead.
Iron Gods: This AP is already structured in three parts, with each part having two episodes.
I don't really care for how Against the Aeon Throne is only 3 parts, seems like it could've been longer.
So, I don't really care for the abbreviated format.
Still, it was worth a try.
Use pathfinder Modules.
-Skeld
Or use JBE's Deadly Delve Adventures. We have more than a few that are rated 5 Stars with EZG's seal of approval.
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There are several APs that can be run as 2-4 episode arcs (instead of the full 6) with minimal modification.
Council of Thieves: Make a less powerful Ilnerik (CR 10-11 instead of 15) the BBEG and have the PCs go directly from Delvehaven (What Lies in Dust) to facing him. The main plot is to rid Westcrown of the shadow beasts.
Kingmaker: End the campaign after Blood for Blood. You could even skip Stolen Land and run a three part arc (Rivers Run Red, The Varnhold Vanishing, and Blood for Blood) with the PCs starting as level 4 rulers.
Serpent's Skull: End the campaign after securing control of Saventh-Yhi at the end of City of Seven Spears, skipping the presence of Juliver (and the link to rest of the AP) altogether.
Carrion Crown: You can pretty much run each of the episodes in this AP independently of each other.
Jade Regent: Instead of the goal being to put Ameiko on the throne, the goal for her to gain some mystic heirloom. Run the first three episodes (The Brinewall Legacy, Night of Frozen Shadows, and The Hungry Storm) pretty much the same, but after traveling over the Crown of the World the PCs participate in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament (reducing the challenges slightly for 10th level PCs, instead of 11th level).
Skull & Shackles: End the campaign after earning a seat on the Pirate Council at the end of Tempest Rising.
Shattered Star, Reign of Winter, and Wrath of the Righteous: These APs don't work very well as shorter arcs.
Mummy's Mask: End the campaign after defeating Nebta-Khufre at the end of Empty Graves, ending the threat of new undead.
Iron Gods: This AP is already structured in three parts, with each part having two episodes.
for the more recent APs
Giantslayer's first 2 (or 3, or 4, or 5, or 6) parts each work. You can theoretically end the AP after ANY of the volumes with a minimum of fuss and it would be almost entirely self contained.
Hells Rebels & Hells Vengeance & Strange Aeons & Ironfang Invasion are all poor fits for shorter APs, although you could end Hell's Rebels at Book 4 with no narrative problems (but you'd miss out on some really cool things in Book 6).
Ruins of Azlant can easily end at Book 3. Just swap out the BBEG for the BBEG at the end of Book 3. No one would be the wiser. You could also start it at Book 4 and run to Book 6 (might be fun if you have a Sea Elf/Merman PC party).
War for the Crown... eh... I guess you could cut it off at vol 4, but then you'd miss out on some really fun stuff in 5 & 6.
On principle, I am 150% opposed to this. The 3-part AP structure of Starfinder is not very appealing to me. At least in its current form, where the developers refuse to publish truly high-level adventure paths. Because apparently they truly believe that the chicken comes before the egg, since it is apparently the belief around their office that they can determine that nobody wants a truly high-level AP, because they haven't published one yet and their sales projections are in that way that they'll never publish one. So they'll just continue to publish mid-level AP's and call it a day. It's a good thing that the PF1E office didn't think that way. :-/
But, if those hypothetical three 3-part AP's were well-connected in terms of their story, so that they form a complete whole for people who want to play them as an entire campaign, but still are made in a way where the can be played as stand-alone adventures, then it might just work out overall. I am not opposed to a more fleshed out campaign over nine modules.
But, then again, as Hythlodeus just pointed out, new AP's after Tyrant's Grasp are for PF2E, where PF2E Golarion is inherently mechanically incompatible for PF1E Golarion in the current form the playtest is in. Hence I care much less, because there is a very good chance I'll never buy a PF2E AP after maybe the first one to test things out. Too much work to make the two incompatible worlds work with each other. I mean, making the mechanical conversion would already be work piled on top of work (The usual stuff I already do for PF1E: flavor text translations to German, financial evaluation of WBL for the entire AP, conversion to the automated bonus progression in terms of NPC's and allocated treasure), but having to re-write the AP entirely to fit into PF1E Golarions mechanical assumptions is really a bit too much.
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A decade ago I suggested alternating AP lengths: a four-volume followed by a six volume followed by a four-volume, etc.
This was when RotRL and CotCT were new and SD, LoF and the Pathfinder rules-set was upcoming -- and there were TONS of Threads about AP length.
Jacobs said 'No' because of scheduling and the the calendar. They need a big adventure release for GenCon each year so an AP has to start in August. And the way Paizo schedules their publications, six month APs are by far the best for them. ....Additionally, with many people asking for APs to go to 20th level, well, shrinking them makes that possibility moot.
In other words, unequivocally 'No,' they are not considering changing the six-volume format.
. . . .
All that said, it's been a good six or eight years since these kinds of Threads were in vogue, and a decade since they were all the rage on the Boards.
With the new edition coming out, a decade of experience removed from WotC, and some data from three-volume APs to evaluate, maybe they'll look again.
I'm confident there is tons of evidence on the Boards here that the vast majority of us do not play the APs start-to-finish, much as we may intend to.
.... Ten years ago someone posted the suggestion, tongue-in-cheek, that Paizo's monthly volume should contain three adventures: one low level, one mid level, and one high level! Of course, that would be best.
They seem to have given up on the "big adventure release for GenCon" idea, so there may be hope for other changes down the road.
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They seem to have given up on the "big adventure release for GenCon" idea, so there may be hope for other changes down the road.
they've had much bigger releases for GenCon recently.
personally, i think it would be a lot of fun to start an AP at higher levels. a 3 vol. AP running from, say 14 - 20 would be really well received I think.
Although it'll be 2nd edition, make one as the spiritual sequel to like Council of Thieves or another, less world-breaking AP.
Iron Gods: This AP is already structured in three parts, with each part having two episodes.
Is that why it feels so clunky? My group is playing it and we like it and what the DM has done but it feels like we're chasing the plot thread more than anything. Feels very disjointed.
That said, you can probably run the first 2 books and not lose much.
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Iron Gods: This AP is already structured in three parts, with each part having two episodes.Is that why it feels so clunky? My group is playing it and we like it and what the DM has done but it feels like we're chasing the plot thread more than anything. Feels very disjointed.
That said, you can probably run the first 2 books and not lose much.
yes. book 1 and 2 are a story, books 3 and 4 are a story, and books 5 and 6 are a story.
yes. book 1 and 2 are a story, books 3 and 4 are a story, and books 5 and 6 are a story.
Iron Gods: This AP is already structured in three parts, with each part having two episodes.Is that why it feels so clunky? My group is playing it and we like it and what the DM has done but it feels like we're chasing the plot thread more than anything. Feels very disjointed.
That said, you can probably run the first 2 books and not lose much.
Saying book 3 and 4 are a story seems to be a bit of a reach. There's really only one plot thread to tie them together and it's a small one.
Which is part of the problem my group is having. We haven't really found the plot we feel especially after book 2 that we're just chasing after a ghost of a plot thread. But I suppose I should go complain about that in a proper topic.
Just run the first three parts of an AP - or the last three. Or three from across three different APs. It's not that difficult.
Such a good idea. Assuming I started a three book arc with Trial of the Beast, what would be a good second and third book to progress through?
yes. book 1 and 2 are a story, books 3 and 4 are a story, and books 5 and 6 are a story.
Iron Gods: This AP is already structured in three parts, with each part having two episodes.Is that why it feels so clunky? My group is playing it and we like it and what the DM has done but it feels like we're chasing the plot thread more than anything. Feels very disjointed.
That said, you can probably run the first 2 books and not lose much.
Saying book 3 and 4 are a story seems to be a bit of a reach. There's really only one plot thread to tie them together and it's a small one.
Which is part of the problem my group is having. We haven't really found the plot we feel especially after book 2 that we're just chasing after a ghost of a plot thread. But I suppose I should go complain about that in a proper topic.
For Iron Gods the sub-plots for each part are:
Episodes 3 and 4 - Find/"rescue" Casandalee
Episodes 5 and 6 - Defeat Unity (after saving Torch from the Technic League/Unity's proxies)
Just run the first three parts of an AP - or the last three. Or three from across three different APs. It's not that difficult.Such a good idea. Assuming I started a three book arc with Trial of the Beast, what would be a good second and third book to progress through?
If you want to stick with horror, go with Dreams of the Yellow King from Strange Aeons. You have to wind your own plot thread through them, but it's pretty easy to switch the MacGuffin into something of your own.
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I am also someone who is not generally drawn to three-part APs, but there is that small flickering flame of hope at the back of my mind that if ever PF2.0 gives us epic rules, a 3-parter would allow for a 9-parter (and with the current scale of Starfinder APs a 9-parter would get up into nice high levels there as well, and I don't think that would go into epic so I am all for this also) and I would love the chance at something that size were it ever to make sense to produce.
what might be REALLY fun, (and would never, ever happen) is for Paizo to do a 3 part, high level PF2 AP as a direct sequel to a PF1 AP.
obviously, you could make up your own characters, but it might be fun to see what the Silver Ravens or the Heroes of Phaendar or the Liberators of Minkai are up to.
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]what might be REALLY fun, (and would never, ever happen) is for Paizo to do a 3 part, high level PF2 AP as a direct sequel to a PF1 AP.I would be quite a bit less interested in an AP not starting at level 1, though.
why?
so many PCs never get to high level for a variety of reasons. why not just start there on you campaign?
we rebooted our Starfinder campaign and added 2 new players at level 7. it has been great. everyone gets fun toys right off the bat.
]what might be REALLY fun, (and would never, ever happen) is for Paizo to do a 3 part, high level PF2 AP as a direct sequel to a PF1 AP.I would be quite a bit less interested in an AP not starting at level 1, though.why?
so many PCs never get to high level for a variety of reasons. why not just start there on you campaign?
we rebooted our Starfinder campaign and added 2 new players at level 7. it has been great. everyone gets fun toys right off the bat.
I can't speak for the nerve-eater, but for me, making a high-level character from scratch is a pain. I much prefer to grow a character organically. The one time my group ran a high-level module, character creation took about 300% longer than it normally does, and people were neglecting important things left and right and discovering it in play.
"Oh, wait, I only have 7 feats. Hang on.... oh, this would be helpful right now!" (Edit: to be clear, I'm not ascribing malicious intent to it, it's just much more likely to forget things to more things you have to keep track of all at once)
That's not to say it couldn't be done well, it's just one of the reasons why I (personally) prefer adventures that start at 1.
Now if you've got a Starfinder situation where a higher-level adventure is intended to be a direct sequel, that avoids my biggest problem altogether while also not stealing the fun from others who just want to start at higher level.