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Alright, I'm hoping a dev will come by this thread to clarify their position, even though I know chances are it won't happen.
Why is Natural Spell not in the CRB?
Was it an omission?
Was it intentional to remove this feat and make it so wildshaping Druids can never cast spells without sacrificing two of their uses of Wildshape in the process?
Is there any chance this feat will make it in the final version?
Wildshape only has minutes duration. You can only effectively use it in combat situations but if you want to cast a spell, you have to give up your current form AND recast it afterwards?
If you have 4 uses of Wildshape per day, this essentially means that casting a spell in each encounter means you can have no more than...2 each day.
If that was the intent, it's broken. Why add mundane healing if some classes are still going to have 5-minutes adventuring days?
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Why is Natural Spell not in the CRB?
I'm not a developer but my personal opinion is because wild shaped druids casting spells are overpowered in PF1. They can be built as combat monsters or (generally in elemental form) they can be casters with several huge advantages over other casters.
Besides, they have to have SOME cool things for the later splat books :-)
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Why is Natural Spell not in the CRB?
I'm not a developer but my personal opinion is because wild shaped druids casting spells are overpowered in PF1. They can be built as combat monsters or (generally in elemental form) they can be casters with several huge advantages over other casters.
Besides, they have to have SOME cool things for the later splat books :-)
I understand the intent and I'm pretty sure that was it as well.
However, this turns out to be overly punitive in play.
I have a great example with one of my players who had shapeshifted into a wolf at level 4. He took two bad hits in a row in a single round and was left with 3 HP.
He could not cast his Heal spell and get back to the fight without having to burn one extra use of his Wild Shape pool.
At level 4, he only has 3 uses in total per day.
So fine, Druids should not be able to cast while transformed because balance.
I find that extremely arguable, but alright, that's how it is.
The issue is that they can't drink a potion either.
They can't even rely on mundane healing or Battle Medic because it is a fine manipulate action.
I find that is a big deal because, for my player, it meant he had a choice of not being able to shapeshift at all for the remainder of the day...or he could just go down this time and hope someone will have him drink a potion or he makes his Fort save. :/
Not exactly the kind of choices one should have to make.
When a Fighter sacrifices an attack to drink a potion, he loses DPS on that turn, he does not sacrifice his ability to attack for the rest of the day!
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I suspect there will not be a natural spell in this edition - all the combat transformation spells have the text "Your battle form prevents casting spells" (or equivalent language for Avatar). Presumably this means that the developers see casting while shapeshifted to be unbalancing...
I disagree with them on that point but I think you got it right.
In that case, Wildshaped Druids should at least be able to drink potions when they require (much like any other regular martial character), or anything else really, because their action economy totally breaks as soon as they start taking hits in combat which happens...all the time.
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I think you could add extra limitations to Natural Spell to make it balanced. For example, you might have to pick a specific number of spells to be able to cast in wild shape (eg you could Heal while wildshaped, but not act as a fully functional caster). It could also be a metamagic effect, requiring extra actions and leaving you unable to use other metamagic at the same time.
I think you could add extra limitations to Natural Spell to make it balanced. For example, you might have to pick a specific number of spells to be able to cast in wild shape (eg you could Heal while wildshaped, but not act as a fully functional caster). It could also be a metamagic effect, requiring extra actions and leaving you unable to use other metamagic at the same time.
Or you can have Natural Spell allow for Somatic Casting only.
Most spells will require Verbal Casting as well so this would effectively let Wildshaped Druids cast Heal, but with the requirement that it has to be touch range and they can't cast other spells at all because they are restricted to Somatic Casting anyway.|
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"We printed an incomplete system so we can upgrade it later" is not really a selling point.
Besides, they have to have SOME cool things for the later splat books :-)
Worked for first edition :-).
Seriously, though, you have to compare PF2 with PF1 Core. Lots and lots of things were missing from PF1 Core (yes, I know Natural Spell is Core). Depending on your definition of "incomplete system" PF1 Core was pretty incomplete.
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So you want to be a full spellcaster with one of the better spell lists in the game (Heal and Fireball both) and also a respectable frontline fighter at the same time? No, they make you have to switch back and forth, you can't have both at once.
That seems reasonable to me.
"We printed an incomplete system so we can upgrade it later" is not really a selling point.
Besides, they have to have SOME cool things for the later splat books :-)
It's working great for the video game industry.
As to the OP, PF2 seems to expect every party to have a dedicated combat healer, so clearly the answer is "have the cleric heal you".
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So you want to be a full spellcaster with one of the better spell lists in the game (Heal and Fireball both) and also a respectable frontline fighter at the same time? No, they make you have to switch back and forth, you can't have both at once.
That seems reasonable to me.
Not being able to heal yourself up when needed -if Wildshaped- by drinking a common mundane healing potion is not reasonable.
You seem to come from the assumption that I want the Druid to just be awesome and have it all.
That is not the case.
I just want Druids to have the ability to get through more than 2 encounters a day before they turn to less than average Fighters.
It's not about being able to buff yourself like there's no tomorrow while you're wildshaped, it's about being able to stay in the fight without burning 2 wildshape uses per spell.
Otherwise, you can keep the rules as they are, forget about Natural Spell altogether and give me more uses of Wildshape per day.
This is still a huge loss in terms of action economy and DPR but, at least, it allows me to play a Wildshaped Druid that can actually, you know, wildshape reliably when they get in combat situations...