When a Fighter Increases a d12 Damage Die

[Tectorman]

Page 91 tells us what to do if a Fighter effect tells us to increase a weapon's damage dice. If it's already a d12, you instead get a +2 circumstance bonus to damage.

Is that per die? Does a +5 greatsword with its damage increased go from "6d12" to "6d12 +12"? Except, the additional damage is a circumstance bonus to damage and those never go above +4, as per page 291.

[Tholomyes]

Tectorman wrote:

Page 91 tells us what to do if a Fighter effect tells us to increase a weapon's damage dice. If it's already a d12, you instead get a +2 circumstance bonus to damage.

Is that per die? Does a +5 greatsword with its damage increased go from "6d12" to "6d12 +12"? Except, the additional damage is a circumstance bonus to damage and those never go above +4, as per page 291.

According to Mark Seifter, that limit to circumstance bonuses and penalites is only to checks, not damage rolls.

But that said, I don't think it's per die. I'd be interested to learn that it is, but to my reading of it, I see it more as, if the base weapon damage die is less than a d12, increase each die one step; else if it is a d12, you get +2 bonus.

[Quandary]

Yeah I feel this shouldn't be circumstance bonus or even bonus at all,
just change the base damage to d12+2 which would be mutiplied as whole,
as the ability always ways on all other damage dies.

[The Sideromancer]

Really seems like they should have kept in 2d6 and 2d8 weapons for this...

[Nettah]

I would say the +5 greatsword does 6d12+12. What I don't get is why it's a +2 circumstance bonus. All other increase in damage die is an increase of +1 damage on average, so why is this one +2?

[Quandary]

Previously to 2e, it would be 2d6 -> 2d8.
In 2e that is 1d12 -> (hypothetical) 1d16.
For an average of 6.5 -> 8.5. i.e difference of 2.
This math also shows why this bonus should be included when weapon die are multiplied,
and why it should probably not count as Circumstance bonus (given increased damage on smaller weapons doesn't)

[thenobledrake]

Everything else in the game that is +X per die of damage the weapon deals is explicit in saying the "per die" part, so I am fairly certain this case is just a flat +2 circumstantial bonus.

That also kind of explains why most other damage increases are 1 on average, but this one is 2, because going from 1d8 to 1d10 is definitely a change on a per-die basis, and this one, presumably, isn't.

[Joey Cote]

Considering the next die would be a d20 (a +4 average increase in damage), a +2 circumstance bonus per die does not seem unreasonable.