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So, I recently thought of an issue when going over the Identifying Spells rules from the first update.
Page 197—In the Spells chapter, just before the Dispelling section, add a new section called Identifying Spells that reads “Sometimes you need to identify a spell, especially if its effects are not obvious right away. If you notice a spell being cast or see the manifestations from its casting and you have prepared that spell or have it in your repertoire, you automatically know what the spell is, including the level to which it is heightened. Otherwise, you must spend an action on your turn to attempt to identify the spell using Recall Knowledge, or can use the Recognize Spell feat (see page 170) to attempt to identify the spell using a reaction.”
It would seem that from this, there is nothing to allow Wizards to identify spells they have in their spellbook, but have not prepared for the day. Instead, Wizards would treat those spells as being no different from spells they had never encountered before.
This feels wrong. I get that there is an issue with just allowing casters in general to identify any spell they know, since Clerics/Druids technically know the entire Divine/Primal lists, but it seems like Wizards should at least know what they spent time copying into their spellbooks.
No problem.
Having spell in spellbook plausibly implies you always know that spell exists, but not much else. The automatic function here isn't really about normal knowledge. Having that spell energy currently bound to your consciousness makes it automatic and intuitive to instantly recognize it's manifestation, because those manifestations are currently latent in your consciousness.
Otherwise, you need to use Recognize Spell Feat to be able to have chance to instantly make Knowledge roll to ID it (an improvement over normal Recall checks). I would say that if the spell is in your spellbook it should be treated as Common for you, avoiding DC increase for Uncommon/Rare, although that may not be explicitly stated in RAW currently.
EDIT: "and you have prepared that spell" could be alot more explicit.
Is that only currently prepared? Or prepared in last day? (e.g. is valid for Arcane Focus) Or prepared EVER in your lifetime?
I think the middle is best mechanic, and congruent with Arcane Focus implying cast spells are still somehow latent in your mind,
but IMHO the most straight forward reading is the first, although excessivey harsh to Wizards
(albeit the prime relevance of instant auto ID is counterspelling which AFAIK Arcane Focus doesn't work with)
No problem.
Having spell in spellbook plausibly implies you always know that spell exists, but not much else. The automatic function here isn't really about normal knowledge. Having that spell energy currently bound to your consciousness makes it automatic and intuitive to instantly recognize it's manifestation, because those manifestations are currently latent in your consciousness.
I have issues with that explanation since, a) such theming does not appear to be anywhere in the rulebook, and b) said theming is likely to clash with many table's/player's theming of magic.
Basically, I choose to look at the situation not as "wizards aren't familiar with the spells in their spell books" but as "Wizards know so much about magic that they can work out the effects of spells they've never even heard of by watching someone try to cast them just as easy as they can recognize a spell they've learned, but not read-through recently"
Except Wizards do not get Recognize Spell as a free skill feat, and everyone else can use the same Recall Knowledge even if they aren't a spellcaster. So everyone can recognize the spell with the same ability as a Wizard who spent hours copying said spell into their spellbook, but didn't happen to prepare it today. Heck, having the spell in your spellbook doesn't even boost your chances of a correct identification, so it is completely possible to botch your roll (especially with the dreaded nat 1).
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I like it but I have practical issues with this rule, it forces the GM to either:
a) know all the spells the caster has prepared that day (worse as you level up),
b) ask all casters in the table a list of their prepared spells and scan over that list, or
c) say which is the spell and let the players manage what they know in-character
In that sense I think it is just better to make everyone roll.
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I assume that 'in your repertoire' means you have access to it. For spontaneous casters that's spells you know, for spellbook types that's spells in your book, for casters like Clerics or Druids that's all spells they have access to.
The Recognize Spell skill feat does make this even easier. If you want to be able to recognize spells then take the feat:
Trigger A creature casts a spell within line of sight of you that you don’t have prepared or in your spell repertoire, or a trap or similar inanimate object triggers and casts such a spell. You must be aware the creature is casting the spell or the trap is triggering.
If the spell is a common spell of level 2 or lower and you are trained in the appropriate skill for the spell’s tradition, you automatically identify it. The spell level you automatically identify increases to 4 if you’re an expert, 6 if you’re a master, or 10 if you’re legendary. Otherwise, the GM rolls a secret Arcana, Nature, Occultism, or Religion check, whichever corresponds to the tradition of the spell being cast. If you’re untrained in the skill, you can’t get a better result than failure. The DC of the check is 10 plus triple the level of the spell. The DC for an uncommon spell is usually 2 higher than for a common spell, and the DC for a rare spell is usually 5 higher.
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I like it but I have practical issues with this rule, it forces the GM to either:
a) know all the spells the caster has prepared that day (worse as you level up),
I think this is the elephant in the room here. Doesn't matter how cool the idea is, if it doesn't play well at table. This mechanic also adds burden for GM with NPC casters (recognizing PC spellcasting), expecting immediate familiarity with their repertoire even off their turn.
I do think 2nd Edition has reigned in the # of spells (mostly stat bonus slots) but I'm not sure if it's ENOUGH to actually make this approach viable - especially imagining tables with multiple caster PCs in an OrgPlay/Con setting. I think the sentiment behind the change - avoiding rolls - is valid with real table benefit towards goal of simplicity, but the burden on knowing prep'd spells makes it far from "automatic win".
I agree a cautious eye needs to be cast on this, as much as I feel excited about the mechanic.
I assume that 'in your repertoire' means you have access to it. For spontaneous casters that's spells you know, for spellbook types that's spells in your book, for casters like Clerics or Druids that's all spells they have access to.
"Spell Repertoire" is a class feature specifically for spontaneous casters and is never referenced outside that. Additionally, in skill uses under Learning Spells, the language of the rulebook separates into three categories for casters with a spellbook, spell list, or spell repertoire. So I do not think it would be appropriate to assume a different definition of "repertoire" just for the Identifying Spells section.
Additionally, if this were true, it would make casters that prepare from a list (Cleric, Druid) vastly better at identifying spells when compared to a Wizard or spontaneous caster, since they could automatically identify any spell from their entire list. Which sounds rather problematic to me, especially from a thematic standpoint (then again, I always disliked the prepare from a list casters since they get automatic buffs everytime new spells are released, while Spontaneous/Wizards have to actually spend effort to learn new spells).
I like it but I have practical issues with this rule, it forces the GM to either:
a) know all the spells the caster has prepared that day (worse as you level up),
b) ask all casters in the table a list of their prepared spells and scan over that list, or
c) say which is the spell and let the players manage what they know in-characterIn that sense I think it is just better to make everyone roll.
This is part of why I think Wizards should be able to automatically identify spells in their spellbook, since it is vastly easier for a GM to have a list of all spells the player has in their spellbook, rather than asking for what is prepared each day. [Though I'd also say it would be appropriate for Clerics to have a similar Prayer Book for spells.]
I'd argue against everyone rolling, since I think that automatic identification needs to be in the game so that counterspelling can work as intended. Especially considering the thematic issues that would be caused by a botched roll (how can I fail to identify a spell that I prepare multiple times everyday?). Not to mention that if everyone can get a free roll, then the Recognize Spell feat instantly loses almost all of its value.