Yolande d'Bar's Simple Tweaks for Death & Dying

[Yolande d'Bar]

• I think the spirit of the new death & dying rules has been good from the start, fixing the problems with PF1 dying
• I think the execution of death & dying so far has been needlessly difficult; if a flowchart is required for such a common rule, something is wrong
• I think the 1.3 revision to death and dying is the best so far, and it's almost a system I want to use
• As a GM, I want to apply the exact same dying rules to PCs & NPCs & monsters alike. No preferential treatment for PCs. That means the rules need to be simple enough I can apply them to monsters without ever having to stop the game to look anything up, most especially on tedious Table 10-2.
• The most fun part of PF1's dying rules--Staggered--hasn't really been incorporated into the new rules

The dying rules remain exactly as stated in the latest update (including Wounded condition, Treat Wounds, etc.) with two tweaks.

TWEAK #1: No one cares who or what delivered the death blow. No one wants to look at Table 10-2 in the middle of the battle.

Recovery Saving Throws
When you're dying, at the start of each of your turns you attempt a CON check DC15 to see if you get better or worse; this is called a Recovery Saving Throw. The effects of the save are as follows

Natural 20: Your dying value is reduced by 2
Success Your dying value is reduced by 1
Failure Your dying value increases by 1
Natural 1: Your dying value increases by 2

TWEAK #2: It would actually be epic and fun if no one went unconscious at Dying 1.

DYING 1: You remain conscious. You have the Slowed 2 condition and can only take 1 action on your turn.

(Note: This doesn't impinge on Orc Ferocity, because with that you still retain all of your actions and 1 hp and don't gain the dying condition.)

Those are rules I could run by the seat-of-my-pants as a GM and I could easily apply them to a whole horde of goblins mobbing the PCs. It would be fun watching the good guys and bad guys at Dying 1 hobbling toward safety; or (round 1) getting out a healing potion, hoping they'll still be around Round 2 to drink it.

Or, better yet, taking one last swing as they drop.

[Draco18s]

The problem with a CON check DC 15 is at 15th level people are going to auto-succeed.

(Remember: level adds to everything in this game)

[Snickersnax]

Draco18s wrote:

The problem with a CON check DC 15 is at 15th level people are going to auto-succeed.

(Remember: level adds to everything in this game)

There are flat checks in the game that level doesn't add to: Blinded, concealed, etc.

[breithauptclan]

Perhaps use Fortitude save vs the enemy's attack DC. Still wouldn't have to reference table 10-2, but it would be affected by the stats of the final blow (which may be a bug or a feature depending on your outlook on it).

Also, would a straight up CON check scale with level? Fortitude save does because it has a proficiency bonus.

[Snickersnax]

Yolande d'Bar wrote:

• I think the spirit of the new death & dying rules has been good from the start, fixing the problems with PF1 dying

• I think the execution of death & dying so far has been needlessly difficult; if a flowchart is required for such a common rule, something is wrong
• I think the 1.3 revision to death and dying is the best so far, and it's almost a system I want to use
• As a GM, I want to apply the exact same dying rules to PCs & NPCs & monsters alike. No preferential treatment for PCs. That means the rules need to be simple enough I can apply them to monsters without ever having to stop the game to look anything up, most especially on tedious Table 10-2.
• The most fun part of PF1's dying rules--Staggered--hasn't really been incorporated into the new rules

The dying rules remain exactly as stated in the latest update (including Wounded condition, Treat Wounds, etc.) with two tweaks.

TWEAK #1: No one cares who or what delivered the death blow. No one wants to look at Table 10-2 in the middle of the battle.

Recovery Saving Throws
When you're dying, at the start of each of your turns you attempt a CON check DC15 to see if you get better or worse; this is called a Recovery Saving Throw. The effects of the save are as follows

Natural 20: Your dying value is reduced by 2
Success Your dying value is reduced by 1
Failure Your dying value increases by 1
Natural 1: Your dying value increases by 2

TWEAK #2: It would actually be epic and fun if no one went unconscious at Dying 1.

DYING 1: You remain conscious. You have the Slowed 2 condition and can only take 1 action on your turn.

The problem I see here is that no one is ever at Dying 1 for their first turn.

Quote:

When you're dying, at the start of each of your turns you attempt a CON check DC15

So on your first turn you are either dying 0, dying 2 or dying 3 after your check. The only exception would be if you were critically hit got taken to dying 2 immediately and then made your recovery save to be dying 1.

[Shaheer-El-Khatib]

I was thinking about something like this :

When you reach 0 you become wounded 1 (or 2 if the hit was critical).

Any damage you take increase the wounded condition by 1 (or 2 if critical hit or critical fail Save)

Wounded X become : -X in all check. You are still conscious.
Magical healing reduce the Wounded condition by the number of dices rolled.

When your wounded value exceed you CON modifier (minimum 1) you become inconscious and dying 1 (or 2).

Dying : same thing as now but DC 15.

Example :
PC with CON +3

Reach 0 : Wounded 1. Still fighting.
Got hit : Wounded 2. Still fighting.
Got Healed by 1d6 : wounded 1. Still fighting.
Got hit : Wounded 2. Still fighting.
Got critically hit : Wounded 3 - dying 1
Got Healed by 1d6 : Wounded 3 - Conscious
Got critically hit : Wounded 3 - dying 2

Side notes :
- I though about "slow" for wound but that would limit it at Wounded 3.

- I used wounded X to be like the usual system but I would myself prefer a table of negative effect (blinded by blood, slowed, dazzed...) to pick by the GM (To match the attack that wounded the PC) or roll randomly.

- magical healing make it a lot more harder. I don't like it as it is. I would need to think about It.

- That probably make people with High CON way more harder to kill but they also take huge penalties if they keep fighting.

- Too much complexe to run with npc each fight.

Overall it is not a good idea right now but maybe with some tweak here and there....

[Draco18s]

Snickersnax wrote:

Draco18s wrote:

The problem with a CON check DC 15 is at 15th level people are going to auto-succeed.

(Remember: level adds to everything in this game)

There are flat checks in the game that level doesn't add to: Blinded, concealed, etc.

Flat checks aren't modified by anything, including Con. ;)

breithauptclan wrote:

Perhaps use Fortitude save vs the enemy's attack DC.

What about environmental damage? Falling off buildings, stepping in lava, etc.