I am wondering what are some good ways to play characters with a dumped mental stat. This is difficult at times, especially when the character has very desperate stats. Like just because a person isn't very likable doesn't mean that they would be completely stupid in a social situation particularly given that they are smarter/wiser than the average person. I find this especially difficult when you have features that change a skill or two to function off a different stat.
So here are some example stat lines, how would you guys play these characters? These are cha dumped examples, but I'm sure there are others that dump a different stat. I just tend to dump cha for mechanical reasons.
Int/Wis/Cha
Char 1
16/12/7
-Student of philosophy (int instead of cha for the attitude aspects of bluff and diplomacy)
Char 2
12/16/7
-Empathetic Diplomat (wis instead of cha for diplomacy)
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D&D 5th (and I thought PF1 but I can't find a quote) codified what the DM should do
Sometimes, the GM might ask for an ability check using a specific skill--for example, “Make a Wisdom (Perception) check.” At other times, a player might ask the GM if proficiency in a particular skill applies to a check. In either case, proficiency in a skill means an individual can add his or her proficiency bonus to ability checks that involve that skill. Without proficiency in the skill, the individual makes a normal ability check.
For example, if a character attempts to climb up a dangerous cliff, the GM might ask for a Strength (Athletics) check. If the character is proficient in Athletics, the character's proficiency bonus is added to the Strength check. If the character lacks that proficiency, he or she just makes a Strength check.
This is basically how I do it. You choose an ability, you say "make a check with this ability, modified with this skill's bonus's"
What this does is allow a player to frame a situation using their good stats and thus encouraging good roleplay.
Examples:
* You've been studying lockpicking books in your downtime as an Int 16 Dex 8 character. You then frame your approach as "Using my knowledge of locks from 'A Locksmith's Guide' I carefully manipulate the tumblers" (or something..), then maybe I'd say "Roll an Intelligence(Disable Device)"; though I'd be more likely to have them add in their dex mod (-1) as well, given that they are bad at manipulating objects.
* You have poor cha but good wisdom -> Diplomacy. You're requesting the aid of someone and use a philosophical approach rather than a charismatic approach: "When you help one in your community, you help all in it. If everyone would deny us help, then our community will succumb to <the thing>, and you are best positioned to help. In order to help yourself, you must help us." (or something better..) Then I may ask for a "roll a Wisdom(Diplomacy)" rather than Cha which may be an approach that attempts to be friendly, attempts to barter, or some other manipulation of a person that appeals to the way people act
This also helps players pass checks AND promote roleplay; which is good. You incentivize the players to roleplay by virtue of dangling "doing well" in front of them.
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Int/Wis/ChaChar 1
16/12/7
-Student of philosophy (int instead of cha for the attitude aspects of bluff and diplomacy)Char 2
12/16/7
-Empathetic Diplomat (wis instead of cha for diplomacy)
A 7 isn't really "that" low, so I wouldn't go too far off normal to play it. The 7 is no further from average than the 14. One gives -2 and the other a +2. So, the 7 would be as much of an idiot as the 14 would be a genius.
Char 1 might be bookish. He's usually conscious enough of others to know if he is annoying them, but can't quite figure out how to reliably make people like him either.
Char 2 might be stoic. He's too busy listening and paying attention to bother talking most of the time. The average person won't pay much attention to him, but those who know him, always hold his opinions in high regard.
Just for reference, the class skill bonus is +3. A 7 stat is -2. There's no reason, for example, why a 7 Charisma would necessitate a "Duh, Whatta I do?" approach when say trying to Bluff or Gain Information (Diplomacy skill)depending on what else is going with the character. It really depends on what you want and imagine the critter to be doing. (Apologies if I'm being too defensive here)
As for role playing, there's always the path of the idiot savant. The "Rainmaker" guy had an Intelligence of lower than 7 I would think, but he could tell you the cube root of 10 to a bunch of decimal places.
I am wondering what are some good ways to play characters with a dumped mental stat.
It comes naturally to me. :(
A great way to play a character accurately is enforced method acting. Which is to say, if before the session you stick an ice pick in your eye socket and lobotomize yourself you’ll have an easy time staying in character.
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The problem with comparing 7 and 14 is 7 is as low as you can go, while 14 is still four points away from the highest.
The world is assumed to be based on the average person rolling 3d6 for their stats, so 3s aren't that unusual. Point buy just has that 7 limit to keep people from being too munchkin. Heck, the default low in Starfinder and 2E is 10. Does that mean that 10 is now really stupid?
See, but here are the descriptions of ability scores from the d20PFSRD
Inteligence
Score Modifier Examples Description
— — Zombie, golem, ochre jelly
0 – – Comatose
1 –5 Carrion crawler, purple worm, camel Lives by the most basic instincts, not capable of logic or reason
2-3 –4 Tiger, hydra, dog, horse Animal-level intelligence, acts mostly on instinct but can be trained
4–5 –3 Otyugh, griffon, displacer beast Can speak but is apt to react instinctively and impulsively, sometimes resorts to charades to express thoughts
6–7 –2 Troll, hell hound, ogre, yrthak Dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounces words
8–9 –1 Troglodyte, centaur, gnoll Has trouble following trains of thought, forgets most unimportant things
10–11 +0 Human, bugbear, wight, night hag Knows what they need to know to get by
12–13 +1 Dragon turtle, cloud giant, lamia Picks up new ideas quickly and learns easily, knows a bit more than is necessary, fairly logical
14–15 +2 Invisible stalker, wraith, will-o’-wisp Can solve most problems without even trying very hard, able to do math or solve logic puzzles mentally with reasonable accuracy
16–17 +3 succubus, trumpet archon Noticeably above the norm, fairly intelligent, able to understand new tasks quickly
18–19 +4 Nightwing Genius-level intelligence, may invent new processes or uses for knowledge
20–21 +5 Kraken, titan, nightcrawler Highly knowledgeable, probably the smartest person many people know
22-23 +6 Great wyrm red dragon, planetar Able to make amazing leaps of logic
24-25 +7 Mythic ice devil, the demon lord Kostchtchie World-famous level intelligence, sought out for advice constantly
32–33 +11 Great wyrm gold dragon Unfathomable intellect
Wisdom
Score Modifier Examples Description
0 – – Incapable of rational thought and is unconscious.
1 –5 Gelatinous cube (ooze), animated object Seemingly incapable of thought, barely aware
2-3 –4 Shrieker (fungus) Rarely notices important or prominent items, people, or occurrences
4-5 –3 Giant maggot, bogwid Seemingly incapable of planning
6–7 –2 Gibbering abomination, blood orc, ifrit Seems to have almost no common sense
8–9 –1 Purple worm, grimlock, troll Forgets or fails to consider options before taking action
10–11 +0 Human, lizardfolk, phantom fungus Capable of planning and makes reasoned decisions most of the time
12–13 +1 Owlbear, hyena, shadow, remorhaz Can sense when a person is upset
14–15 +2 Wraith, owl, giant praying mantis Can get hunches about a situation that doesn’t feel right
16–17 +3 Devourer, lillend, androsphinx Reads people and situations fairly well
18–19 +4 Couatl, erinyes devil, guardian naga Often looked to as a source of wisdom or as a counselor
20–21 +5 Unicorn, storm giant Reads people and situations very well, almost without effort
22-23 +6 Xacarba, nalfeshnee demon, royal time elemental Can tell minute differences among many situations
24-25 +7 Kirin emperor, Amon (Duke of Hell), tarn linnorm Nearly prescient, able to see potential results far beyond that which pure logic would reveal
32–33 +11 Great wyrm gold dragon
Charisma
Score Modifier Examples Description
0 – – Unable to express itself in any way and is unconscious.
1 –5 Zombie, golem, shrieker Barely conscious, appears blank and expressionless
2-3 –4 Spider, crocodile, lizard, rhinoceros Capable of only minimal independent decision-making
4–5 –3 Dire rat, weasel, chuul, donkey Has no awareness of the needs of others, almost no sense of empathy
6–7 –2 Badger, troll, fire beetle, bear Uninteresting, rude, boorish, and generally unpleasant to be around
8–9 –1 Gnoll, dire boar, manticore, gorgon Something of a bore or makes people mildly uncomfortable
10–11 +0 Human, wolverine, dretch Understands most conventions of social interactions and acts relatively acceptably in social circumstances
12–13 +1 Treant, roper, doppelganger, night hag Mildly interesting, usually knows what to say
14–15 +2 Storm giant, barghest, medusa Interesting, almost always knows what to say
16–17 +3 Ogre mage, pixie, harpy, achaierai Popular, receives greetings and conversations on the street
18–19 +4 Greater barghest, nixie Immediately likeable by many people, subject of favorable talk
20–21 +5 Astral deva, kraken Life of the party, able to keep people entertained for hours
22-23 +6 Kirin, adult crystal dragon, hamadryad, phoenix Immediately likeable by almost everybody
24-25 +7 Marilith demon, star drake, solar, nymph Renowned for wit, personality, and/or looks
32–33 +11 Great wyrm gold dragon
Basically it's a screwy sliding scale, anything below 10 becomes really bad very fast, and anything above about 16-18 become a "genius" of those aspects. in the middle it doesn't make much difference, but near the ends it's vastly different for small incremental changes. This makes playing at the low end difficult, but it's even more difficult when you have solid abilities in some mental scores, but a bad score in one of the three.
Really the same problem occurs with physical stats too, but its easier to deal with I feel.
D20pfsrd isn’t an official source though. Their concept of what a score represents isn’t necessarily true.