| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So I've actually playtested now, so I satisfy the requirements of those who dismiss observations from those who merely read.
I played a 7th-level bard. I've also read partial content for other classes.
Seeing the game play out at the table, I'm comfortable with the fundamentals. The proficiency system, the action system... the basic math is all a reasonable chassis to build upon, and while there are details that could stand adjusting, I agree the basic foundation isn't broken.
That said... C/MD is a topic. It's a topic that's been brought up in other threads, in other contexts, but I felt I might have observation worthy of another look.
What I saw at the table was that martials directly contributed to every combat, and massively so. Frequently making multiple attacks, frequently critting, frequently contributing.
Meanwhile, despite having a nice wide-variety of known spells, my contributions were generally to cast inspire courage and to cast an attack cantrip. That cantrip deals roughly half the damage a single martial attack does.
Point being that a martial gets (up to) three attempts to shine for their turn. The cast gets one attempt to shine half as brightly, and one opportunity to help the martials shine.
I quite liked the three-action system, and I quite liked inspire courage. Very bard-esque. What I didn't like is that my go-to at-will attack spells take two actions, meaning not only are my contributions less potent, but I contribute them less often.
As for non-cantrip spells, well, utility spells are designed with durations and potency such that they are hoarded. The small number of spell slots doubles down on that. Sure, a caster might know a damage spell that does almost-martial damage in an area effect (which is awesome, yes), but they get to pull that out a couple times a day, tops. Meanwhile the martial keeps martialling every round, every encounter, every day.
From what I see, combat leaves casters contributing negligibly in most combats. And the problematic world-bending magic from PF1 is gone, so casters can't get to contribute in the out-of-the-box-thinking ways they used to. That doesn't leave a meaningful, routine, contribution at the table.
My suggestion would be to consider allowing basic combat cantrips to be single-action castings. Leave their damage output significantly behind a martial's, but at least let casters try making (up to) three attacks, to give them the same number of chances to shine. As a bard, an inspire courage plus a couple telekinetic projectile castings would be thematic and fun. Maybe I'd get to crit once a session instead of not at all, while my martial buddies pull of a half-dozen a session.
That leaves slotted spells to be the equivalent of the martial class abilities that periodically improve their contributions.
Otherwise, frankly, I just don't see why I would want to play a caster
Check this thread for more of this vein:
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree that some cantrips should be one action. That wouldn't seem to broken and casting 2 different cantrips in one round would b really cool. They'll take MAP just like everything else. The only problem I see is spells like Electric Arc. It goes off Reflex saves. How would that work with MAP?
Also could we please not have this thread devolve into a "Casters are nerfed" thread. Let's be productive here.