Yeah, they may appear to grow fast, but you're still a lot lower than in PF1. DCs grow a lot more aggressively too.
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Haven't seen the devs commenting anything else than "the system works, you just haven't got it yet"
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Hey there all,
It is always interesting to me to see folks try to divine design intent based on output. In many ways, there are a number of valid points here that went into the decision to add level to proficiency (besides the obvious that most characters did this in 1st ed to specific parts of their stats, which helps maintain the same game feel).
[...]
Like most of our design calls, there are mechanical reasons and narrative reasons. This one is all across the board and might serve as a good topic for one of our upcoming twitch streams.
bolded emphasis mine, because that's the real headscratcher
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I'm not a fan. If your character doesn't know how to swim at level 1 and never bothered to learn then he shouldn't know how to swim EVER. That's regardless of the level approrpriate DC for his current level. He just sucks at that and that's ok. I don't like that everyone has to be good at everything just because they're high level.
If you look at the tables at 20th level everyone should be able to succeed at every ordinary task listed there at high dificulty without much problems.
I'm not bothered by automatic increases in AC, attack bonuses, saves, etc.
But I don't think you should add your level to skills you're completely untrained in. Being great at killing monsters doesn't mean you're great at singing. There should, however, be a way to learn more skills as you level up, and if you learn to sing, you can immediately start adding your level to your sing ability.
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I'm not bothered by automatic increases in AC, attack bonuses, saves, etc.
But I don't think you should add your level to skills you're completely untrained in. Being great at killing monsters doesn't mean you're great at singing. There should, however, be a way to learn more skills as you level up, and if you learn to sing, you can immediately start adding your level to your sing ability.
This is where gating by proficiency level would come in. If the task is something an untrained person can do, then making the check at -2 (relative to a trained person of the same level) seems fine. But if the check is one that requires training (for example, attempting a professional performance), then an untrained person is simply incapable of making an attempt that counts.
But for an impromptu singing performance, several levels of listening to the party bard sing just might account for the bonus from level.
bolded emphasis mine, because that's the real headscratcherHey there all,
It is always interesting to me to see folks try to divine design intent based on output. In many ways, there are a number of valid points here that went into the decision to add level to proficiency (besides the obvious that most characters did this in 1st ed to specific parts of their stats, which helps maintain the same game feel).
[...]
Like most of our design calls, there are mechanical reasons and narrative reasons. This one is all across the board and might serve as a good topic for one of our upcoming twitch streams.
Whenever I would build a character at level 1 I would put skill points in the skills that I cared about. When I leveled up, I would continue to do that - put some of my skill points at each level into the skills that I cared about.
Which results in the skills that I care about having +1 per level. Because that is what I bought with my skill points.
Now that is happening automatically. Which is debatable whether that is good or bad, but it does have a very similar feel to what players would do when leveling up anyway.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
bolded emphasis mine, because that's the real headscratcherHey there all,
It is always interesting to me to see folks try to divine design intent based on output. In many ways, there are a number of valid points here that went into the decision to add level to proficiency (besides the obvious that most characters did this in 1st ed to specific parts of their stats, which helps maintain the same game feel).
[...]
Like most of our design calls, there are mechanical reasons and narrative reasons. This one is all across the board and might serve as a good topic for one of our upcoming twitch streams.
Whenever I would build a character at level 1 I would put skill points in the skills that I cared about. When I leveled up, I would continue to do that - put some of my skill points at each level into the skills that I cared about.
Which results in the skills that I care about having +1 per level. Because that is what I bought with my skill points.
Now that is happening automatically. Which is debatable whether that is good or bad, but it does have a very similar feel to what players would do when leveling up anyway.
In pf1, I'd more often see a couple key skills that got 1/lv (like Spellcraft on a caster type), but a few other skills that got maybe 1 every other level, or 1/lv to a certain threshold (like Climb, rarely raised past 10 because with trained bonus and a decent strength that's enough for most).