Martials Need Better Toys


General Discussion


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Martials need better Feat Options specially at levels 10 and above. As it stands there is little incentive not to multiclass into a caster class. Martials get their toys either late, broken or with some assembly required, all of which make it easy to be left behind in a table with Players that are either playing casters or multiclassing into one.

Some feats for martials have questionable restrictions like the duration of the fear effect on Intimidating Strike for the Fighter which only functions seems to be setting up Shatter Defenses instead of being a solid option on its own merits.

Some feats are acquired way too late like the Rangers Powerful Snare that feels like something that should be available way before level 10. In addition there is also the problem of some martials having late or worse options than the casters like Rangers getting Full-Grown Companion and Specialized companion two levels later than the Druid for no aparent reason.

My last issue is that there are some feats that seem incomplete just to make the player invest in two different feats to get the desired result, an example of this is Felling Strike and Sudden Leap, this one example is particularly problematic since those are both level 8 feats which is a major investment on a character at that level and the effects of both feats combined can easily be recreated by a level 5 Wizard casting Earthbind, this means that a Fighter needs to spend a level 8 and a level 10 feat (and spend one more action) to do what a wizard could do at level 5, which is not fun.

Not everything is bad though, things like the Fighter's Mirror Shield and the Barbarian's Dragon Totem Wings seems really fun and serve as evidence of the improvements that martials have undergone since first edition and I hope this means we'll see even more improvement when the second edition is released.


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small little snag: with the rage round limitations (3 rounds on, 1 round off) and only having a fly speed while raging, you can't really sustain flight (such as while chasing a fleeing enemy), and it makes flying at any height a big concern, as you apparently just drop out of the sky for a solid round (and i can't find anywhere that states the fall distance/round, which i hope is somewhere, as i want to have a dramatic chasm-fall battle into a giant lake that takes you to a snowy mountaintop somehow) once your rage is up, and then have to start flying again on the following round if you haven't already hit the ground from 40/80/120+ feet.

the ability is super cool in design, but kneecapped by mechanics.
(devs may want to consider adding a feather fall effect for non-raging turns in the ability effect)


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I think what they really need is for some of the feats to automatically improve as they increase their proficiency.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
I think what they really need is for some of the feats to automatically improve as they increase their proficiency.

i'd totally dig some scaling feats, certainly.


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AndIMustMask wrote:

small little snag: with the rage round limitations (3 rounds on, 1 round off) and only having a fly speed while raging, you can't really sustain flight (such as while chasing a fleeing enemy), and it makes flying at any height a big concern, as you apparently just drop out of the sky for a solid round (and i can't find anywhere that states the fall distance/round, which i hope is somewhere, as i want to have a dramatic chasm-fall battle into a giant lake that takes you to a snowy mountaintop somehow) once your rage is up, and then have to start flying again on the following round if you haven't already hit the ground from 40/80/120+ feet.

the ability is super cool in design, but kneecapped by mechanics.
(devs may want to consider adding a feather fall effect for non-raging turns in the ability effect)

I actually don't think this is a problem. It is essentially at will flight, it is gonna have some limitations. You aren't going to be flying miles over the landscape for travel, but since fatigued doesn't hamper your move speed, you can basically just sprint for those rounds you aren't flying.

If you are worried about falling damage, the Catfall feat has you covered. Personally, I like the idea of flying up to an enemy, grappling them, and then laughing hysterically as we both plummet out of the sky. That's how I like my barbarians. Actually, I liked that idea when I assumed both of us would take falling damage, but it occurs to me that with Catfall I don't get hurt. So you can grapple an enemy and then surf them into the ground and take no harm. Sweeeet.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
AndIMustMask wrote:

small little snag: with the rage round limitations (3 rounds on, 1 round off) and only having a fly speed while raging, you can't really sustain flight (such as while chasing a fleeing enemy), and it makes flying at any height a big concern, as you apparently just drop out of the sky for a solid round (and i can't find anywhere that states the fall distance/round, which i hope is somewhere, as i want to have a dramatic chasm-fall battle into a giant lake that takes you to a snowy mountaintop somehow) once your rage is up, and then have to start flying again on the following round if you haven't already hit the ground from 40/80/120+ feet.

the ability is super cool in design, but kneecapped by mechanics.
(devs may want to consider adding a feather fall effect for non-raging turns in the ability effect)

Im aware of that shortcoming but its thematic, now Itd be better design to reduce the flying speed while out of rage instead of taking it away


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I believe in another thread Mr. Seifter has mentioned "prevent Barbarians from falling to their doom, when flying during rage" is on their list of fixes to make.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I believe in another thread Mr. Seifter has mentioned "prevent Barbarians from falling to their doom, when flying during rage" is on their list of fixes to make.

Good to know


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I believe in another thread Mr. Seifter has mentioned "prevent Barbarians from falling to their doom, when flying during rage" is on their list of fixes to make.

wonderful!


Some martials definitely do. The fighter seems very solid. The ranger is in desperate need of bow feats at all levels. They don't even get double or triple shot like the fighter. Paladin feats at low level seem more designed about making exceptions to their code (i.e. ignoring legitimate rule by dragons, undead, etc) than giving real benefits. Two handed warriors of all stripes need some definite love and barbarians seem overly weak. I don't want to be in rage mode to climb, swim, jump or smell well. I want to be in rage mode to SMASH stuff!


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The feats need to be consolidated into their respective styles, and be made equivalent to each other by scaling.

The arbitrary level gating is a serious balance problem.

Feats meant to improve combat need some serious math to fix, because using feats in combat shouldn't make you worse than just not using those feats.

I posted in the feats section an analysis of how and why this happens.

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