|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Something that always bugged me about 1e Pathfinder was that monks got proficiency with shortswords, but couldn't really DO anything with them since they didn't have the "monk weapon" tag that other weapons like the temple sword or kama had, so if you wanted to use shortswords as a monk, you had to cough up the money for a ki focus enchantment or beg your GM to include one in a loot pile somewhere.
Is this being addressed in 2e, either by allowing monks to use their monk features with the weapons they start out proficient with, like 5e D&D has done, or simply by removing the shortsword from a monk's starting proficiencies?
In the playtest, monks were proficient in only unarmed attacks, but the 1.3 update added in simple weapons (ei all crossbows). At 1st, Monk's unarmed strikes are 1d6 dmg and they are considered magical around 3rd level. By 5th level, monk's unarmed attacks count as cold iron and silver. When they reach 17th level, a monk's blows are considered adamantine. These are all not feats, just class features. Now this is all the playtest rules... but I think official 2E will probably be about the same.
There is a monk feat called monastic weaponry where a monk gains proficiency in all monk weapons (bo stick, kama, katar, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, and temple sword) and can use these weapons with any feat that the gain unarmed attack bonuses.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
or simply by removing the shortsword from a monk's starting proficiencies?
This appears to be the route they went with. As Darkwynters notes, by default, Monks seem likely to get simple weapons only (mainly to have some sort of ranged option), and can get Monk Weapon stuff with a Feat. Short Swords are on neither of those lists.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
In the playtest, monks were proficient in only unarmed attacks, but the 1.3 update added in simple weapons (ei all crossbows). At 1st, Monk's unarmed strikes are 1d6 dmg and they are considered magical around 3rd level. By 5th level, monk's unarmed attacks count as cold iron and silver. When they reach 17th level, a monk's blows are considered adamantine. These are all not feats, just class features. Now this is all the playtest rules... but I think official 2E will probably be about the same.
There is a monk feat called monastic weaponry where a monk gains proficiency in all monk weapons (bo stick, kama, katar, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, and temple sword) and can use these weapons with any feat that the gain unarmed attack bonuses.
Indeed. The Monastic Weaponry feat is contrasted by various stance feats that let you up your unarmed attacks strike damage. So odds are if you wind up wanting a weapon monk taking this feat puts you on about even footing with a an unarmed monk that took a Stance feat.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm hoping we get Jian as a "monk short sword", or at least some feat to expand monk feats.
|
|
I'm hoping we get Jian as a "monk short sword", or at least some feat to expand monk feats.
That's really what I'd like as well, considering the information we've been given. In 1e if you wanted to play a monk with a jian you were pretty much out of luck unless you followed a really specific build (worship Iomedae and multiclass into cleric, and take the Crusader's Flurry feat).
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I wouldn't use the shortsword stats for a jian - those babies are very similar to western arming swords, so a longsword would work better.
I also hope that different monk archetypes give you different weapon proficiencies. It sounds a bit weird to me that all martial artists on Golarion have access to the same list of weapons.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I hope there's a way for monks to use normal non monk weapons and be effective. It's really just way too limiting for a lot of concepts to have them stuck with specially selected monk weapons. If it's about being afraid the weapons would be too powerful, then they could need stances to use with monk features, and those stances could change their stats.
But really there needs to be ways for monk to use normal weapons effectively.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I hope there's a way for monks to use normal non monk weapons and be effective. It's really just way too limiting for a lot of concepts to have them stuck with specially selected monk weapons. If it's about being afraid the weapons would be too powerful, then they could need stances to use with monk features, and those stances could change their stats.
But really there needs to be ways for monk to use normal weapons effectively.
I think that's what fighter dedication is for. From the UK games expo thread the image on the fighter dedication page is a monk and the text says "monk fighters are great at combining unusual weapon styles. For instance a monk isn't hindered by a restriction to keep one hand free because they want to punch you with that hand anyways"
This is going to sound dumb but...what are dedications?
It's basically multiclass, you sacrifice a class feat to get stuff from another class.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is going to sound dumb but...what are dedications?
Dedications are how Pathfinder 2nd edition does multiclassing, prestige classes, and class variants that can apply to a bunch of classes (e.g. "a mounted one of these", or "a nautical one of these.") In order to unlock later benefits of the multiclass, etc. you have to take the dedication feat (e.g. "fighter dedication") and are usually prohibited from taking a 2nd dedication until you have taken two more feats from the chain started by the dedication.
In effect we have "universal archetypes" (anyone can multiclass, the Hellknights take a variety of people, etc.) in the core book with "class archetypes" coming later (we don't know for sure how those work yet.)
This is going to sound dumb but...what are dedications?
It's the new multiclassing mechanic. Similar to Variant Multiclassing from unchained but less restrictive. It's also how they are doing archetypes in PF2.
Not sure how much you know but generally all classes get static abilities on odd levels and variable abilities on even levels.
So on odd levels a monk gets core monk things that all monks need to be a monk: unarmed fighting, unarmored fighting, extra speed, good saves
Then on even levels (and lvl 1 as well) they get class feats which they can use to flesh out what type of monk they are: fighting styles, ki powers, monk weapon training.
To Multiclass in PF2 you trade out class feats from one class to get some abilities from a different class.
So since there will (probably) be no support for monks using martial weapons in the core monk abilities or class feats they can take the fighter Multiclass archetype to grab those abilities.
The first feat is Fighter Dedication which just grants weapon profocies and a skill but after that they can invest as much or as little as they like in the fighter archetype.
Not sure if I explained that well.
I hope there's a way for monks to use normal non monk weapons and be effective. It's really just way too limiting for a lot of concepts to have them stuck with specially selected monk weapons. If it's about being afraid the weapons would be too powerful, then they could need stances to use with monk features, and those stances could change their stats.
But really there needs to be ways for monk to use normal weapons effectively.
I think that's what fighter dedication is for. From the UK games expo thread the image on the fighter dedication page is a monk and the text says "monk fighters are great at combining unusual weapon styles. For instance a monk isn't hindered by a restriction to keep one hand free because they want to punch you with that hand anyways"
That's saying monks are good at using the free hand fighter feats, which I understand. That's about an unarmed monk, not a weapon using monk which I want.
Yes the monk can MC fighter for weapon proficiencies, but they need a way to use those weapons with monk class features. I want to have a character that can viable use weapons, not one that should use it's fists because they're much better.
|
|
I hope there's a way for monks to use normal non monk weapons and be effective. It's really just way too limiting for a lot of concepts to have them stuck with specially selected monk weapons. If it's about being afraid the weapons would be too powerful, then they could need stances to use with monk features, and those stances could change their stats.
But really there needs to be ways for monk to use normal weapons effectively.
I think that's what fighter dedication is for. From the UK games expo thread the image on the fighter dedication page is a monk and the text says "monk fighters are great at combining unusual weapon styles. For instance a monk isn't hindered by a restriction to keep one hand free because they want to punch you with that hand anyways"
That's saying monks are good at using the free hand fighter feats, which I understand. That's about an unarmed monk, not a weapon using monk which I want.
Yes the monk can MC fighter for weapon proficiencies, but they need a way to use those weapons with monk class features. I want to have a character that can viable use weapons, not one that should use it's fists because they're much better.
Right, that just takes us right back to the issue shortswords had in 1e.
Sounds like the same issue as the Vow of Poverty Monk. Works great mechanically, but you lose out on half the fun. On the up side it seems like Monk weapons will be for more than just getting past resistances and exploiting weaknesses. The monk weapons can be used for crit specialization and weapon traits; the Katar has the deadly trait meaning you add more dice after you double the damage for crit. The Bo Staff is a Club and has Reach which means you can smack someone 10ft away and move them 10ft further on a crit. As of the Playtest it seems most weapons wearn’t really useful with stances, but you can use weapons with Ki powers.