attack of opportunity for everyone

[Ivan Blanco Catalán]

AoO gets me confused. Some monsters have an AoO entry as a reaction, for example Skeletal Champion. But the regular Skeleton does not show the AoO entry. Does that mean that a normal Skeleton is not able to AoO?
Can anyone help me?

[Enderrin]

Ivan Blanco Catalán wrote:

AoO gets me confused. Some monsters have an AoO entry as a reaction, for example Skeletal Champion. But the regular Skeleton does not show the AoO entry. Does that mean that a normal Skeleton is not able to AoO?

Can anyone help me?

You are correct. Unless it is explicitly stated a monster does not get an AoO. AoO is now one of many different Reactions.

[Jason S]

Yes, you only have AoO if you have that reaction.

Like the Beginner Box, it simplifies the game, especially at the start.

[Murph.]

Lack of universal AoO is something that pleasantly surprised me in my group's first playtest session -- both sides were a lot more mobile when not having to fear getting whacked for it. (Especially the monsters with few enough hp that a successful AoO = likely insta-death.)

[Castilliano]

Murph. wrote:

Lack of universal AoO is something that pleasantly surprised me in my group's first playtest session -- both sides were a lot more mobile when not having to fear getting whacked for it. (Especially the monsters with few enough hp that a successful AoO = likely insta-death.)

Ditto. Lots of fun, and it made it much easier for more monsters & PCs to participate.

Plus it was really sweet when the one enemy who could take an AoO did...and critted. After many battles, this caused a PC to drop for the first time so it was pretty stunning! Since that enemy had been on the ropes pretty fast, it was a nice turnaround.

[Ivan Blanco Catalán]

I saw that AoO has a fighter trait entry...I assume then that A rogue cannot AoO!!

[Qstor]

Jason S wrote:

Like the Beginner Box, it simplifies the game, especially at the start.

I remember the first time I played 4e, (after having played and GM'd 3.5 for 3 years) my character stood up next to a bad guy in the game. I turned to my friend and said, "Doesn't the bad guy get an attack of opportunity?" My friend said "NO isn't that the best thing about 4th edition!"

For me I want that AoO but I guess I'm a hard/old school 3.5e/PF1 player/GM.

[Jason S]

Qstor wrote:

For me I want that AoO but I guess I'm a hard/old school 3.5e/PF1 player/GM.

Low level enemies don't have AoO, but higher level ones do if you look in the Bestiary.

For example, skeletons don't have the AoO reaction, but a skeleton champion does!

So to START (levels 1-2) it simplifies the game. And it's better design as well imo, not every enemy is going to have this ability.

Anyway, don't worry, you'll still get smashed by AoO at higher levels. Just look at the Bestiary. With all of the problems 2E has, this is not one of them.

[Real Sareth]

I wrecked my players with Drakus and the Dire Rat in The Lost Star thanks to him being able to weave between them and strategically position himself without fear of reprecussion. They did win eventually but, thanks to that one rule, the encounter was heavily stacked against them and made no sense. Bring back universal AoO!

[Lady Melo]

Qstor wrote:

Jason S wrote:

Like the Beginner Box, it simplifies the game, especially at the start.

I remember the first time I played 4e, (after having played and GM'd 3.5 for 3 years) my character stood up next to a bad guy in the game. I turned to my friend and said, "Doesn't the bad guy get an attack of opportunity?" My friend said "NO isn't that the best thing about 4th edition!"

For me I want that AoO but I guess I'm a hard/old school 3.5e/PF1 player/GM.

You make it sound like 4e didn't have AoO, while true standing up no longer provoked. A common comment/complaint about 4e is just how much it makes use of Attack of Opportunity like mechanics and heavy interrupts that make Defender type characters feel very effective/attractive in the role but also slowled the game down for some people considerably.

A base character can make an AoO per turn (with fighters granting features to greatly improve it's effectiveness) and 1 reaction/interrupt per round, which the game highly encourages you to have a selection of to properly defend yourself (especially as content got deadlier as the game went on). With some classes even triggering AoO by proxy (a mobil spirit) that granted other allies advanced AoO options (even ranged attacks)

I think PF2 is trying to go the exact opposite route of 4e by limiting this type of interaction even more.

Edit: I should most likely add I also want AoO for everyone, with Fighter specializing in them, as well as other "Defensive" characters to have similar options (such as Paladin, cause retributive strike doesn't really cut it). However that's because I have seen through 4e how interesting it can make the defender role.

[Shaheer-El-Khatib]

My players are PF1 veterans and liked that with few AoO the battlemap was moving a lot more.

Maybe I would ad a general feat to unlock a weaker version (or the same version but if the Figther take it it would improve his class version).

I would like another type of AoO though like :

- Monks could trip/push opponent that take action with the move or concentrate trait
- Barbarians could hit back when they got critically hit
- Ranger could have a free movement to folllow an ennemy that try to walk away

I'm not saying these ideas like that are great (probably unbalanced and would need change) but I think there are a lot of options that could be find and works in the game.

[Lyee]

Not thought through, here's an idea I had while reading this thread:

Spend an action, gain AoO for a turn. Generally inefficient action economy, but when you don't have a good third action, it might be neat.

[Pirate Rob]

That's a brilliant idea...

The guard action: gives you access to the AoO reaction.

Fighters get Always on guard

[Shaheer-El-Khatib]

Well you can already but it cost 2 actions