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Bastard Swords should be versatile. As written in the playtest, they do only piecing damage, but there is no justification for a sword with more sharpened edge length than a long sword not doing slashing damage. Yes, you do then need to re-balance vs. great swords, and long swords, but having bastard swords that do only piecing damage is a bit too out of touch with how 'realistic' the game world needs to feel. It would be like having hand axes that you couldn't throw. It would be irritating when it did come up in the game, and people would house rule it differently.
There are many options for re-balancing the bastard sword vs. the longsword, and the greatsword.
One is to make the bastard sword exotic (the PF1e way), which would let fighters who choose the appropriate weapon group use them.
Another is to add some trait to the greatsword. Adding forceful, charge, or backswing to greatswords are reasonable options.
A third option is to merge bastard sword and longsword into one sword, called a longsword, that does 1d8 S, and has the versatile (P), and twohand (d10) traits.
I tend to agree, but find the fact that they default to piercing especially weird, given they have a long blade that's sharp on both sides, and stabbing doesn't work with using a sword to parry (though I admit my experience is based on LRP where safe stabbing weapons are an oxymoron.)
Were I the one writing the rules it would be something like:
Longsword- D8 S/P
Bastard Sword D8 S 1 handed or D12 S 2-handed
Greatsword D12 S/B
Greatswords by this logic are about using their weight to damage the other guy, rather than trying to step three feet back and stab.
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Another thing that is weird is the cost of the Bastard Sword. It costs more than the COMBINED cost of both a Longsword and Greatsword.
So, in effect, you are paying for two swords in one, and then getting LESS than the item you paid for.
If they want to make it so that it isn't your automatic choice at first level, raise the price again and add the Versatility to the weapon. The greater cost would make a first level character think twice about picking one up.
I agree with all of the above. The bastard sword should be Versatile, and the cost is way out of line with the other weapons of its type, with no explanation provided.
I'm pretty sure this is a mistake. It really should be S versatile P. And I do wonder about the damage die. It does seem that other than cost, there isn't really a reason to take a longsword or greatsword over a bastardsword. It's basically both that can be used as either (assuming the damage type is an error and it is in fact S versatile P). As written it's more a representation of an estoc (basically a bastard sword with no cutting edge and very strong point for defeating armor) than a bastard sword (aka longsword for HEMA and museum types). From a pure realism standpoint it should keep the ability to pierce though, that was a common use of many of them (particularly when half-sworded; one hand on the hilt the other about halfway up the blade, common anti-armor technique to ease thrusting into the gaps of armor), and many had very pointed blades to aid thrusting (cutting is better with a wider less tapered blade, so it's a trade-off in optimization).
I'm thinking perhaps they should be damage 1d8 S, Versatile P, Two-hand D10. The reduced two-handed damage so they don't obsolete both the longsword and greatsword. Alternately, perhaps give greatsword Deadly or Forceful to differentiate it from a bastard sword used two-handed. Although that might risk making it overpowered.
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I'm pretty sure this is a mistake. It really should be S versatile P. And I do wonder about the damage die. It does seem that other than cost, there isn't really a reason to take a longsword or greatsword over a bastardsword. It's basically both that can be used as either (assuming the damage type is an error and it is in fact S versatile P). As written it's more a representation of an estoc (basically a bastard sword with no cutting edge and very strong point for defeating armor) than a bastard sword (aka longsword for HEMA and museum types). From a pure realism standpoint it should keep the ability to pierce though, that was a common use of many of them (particularly when half-sworded; one hand on the hilt the other about halfway up the blade, common anti-armor technique to ease thrusting into the gaps of armor), and many had very pointed blades to aid thrusting (cutting is better with a wider less tapered blade, so it's a trade-off in optimization).
I'm thinking perhaps they should be damage 1d8 S, Versatile P, Two-hand D10. The reduced two-handed damage so they don't obsolete both the longsword and greatsword. Alternately, perhaps give greatsword Deadly or Forceful to differentiate it from a bastard sword used two-handed. Although that might risk making it overpowered.
This was actually a thought that I was having. Glad to see we are on the same page. Though I would also like to see a Feat (likely one for the big 3 martial classes) called "Murder Stroke" that allows these swords to also pick up Versatility B.
This was actually a thought that I was having. Glad to see we are on the same page. Though I would also like to see a Feat (likely one for the big 3 martial classes) called "Murder Stroke" that allows these swords to also pick up Versatility B.
I was thinking about an ability to do a murder stroke too. Just getting blunt would probably not be enough for a feat though. Maybe also give it a bonus to penetrating armor. Like it ignores a point of AC from armor or even targets TAC. But then it'd need some drawback for balance so we don't get fighters just using their swords as hammers all the time and never using the blade. Like maybe make it a two action activity to do a murder-stroke. And if that's not enough to balance it, maybe it gives you an armor penalty when you do it (justification being you're not quite as able to guard or parry well when you're holding the sword like that). Or alternately maybe three actions? Three actions might be harsh, but it would make it a tactical decision when to use it, instead of being a default.
And maybe you can have optional spiky cross-guards like you see in some manuscripts to be able to have Versatile P with your Murder Stroke.