I am not pleased with the weapon or armor tables


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Ed Reppert wrote:
I would add that falchions, rapiers, and scimitars are somewhat specialized weapons. The falchion is a thick-bladed single edged shortsword; the rapier is a thin bladed shortsword designed for thrusting; the scimitar is a single edged shortsword with a curved blade. Like the sabre, it originally evolved as a weapon for mounted combat. The other swords in the current list are basically "not from around here" - that is, not in the European tradition.

Quick correction regarding rapiers: Rapiers were generally quite long, usually slightly longer than "bastard swords", and just as heavy, but with more of the weight in the hilt.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Yes, some were, at least. I was thinking of Merisiel though. I don't think hers is all that long or heavy.


CommanderCoyler wrote:
There is no Dex to damage (yet, hopefully).

There is Dex to damage. It's a rogue class ability called Finesse Striker. Amusingly, because it says it affects finesse or agile weapons rather than just finesse weapons, it's possible to get Dex to damage with a weapon that doesn't let you get Dex to attack.


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I'm still trying to understand how a great sword which is the same length as a polarm, doesn't have reach? so two weapons that have the same length, the great sword and the pole arm (halberd/gaive or other varieties), yet one has reach and one doesn't huh? A great sword is a sword that can be used like a sword, but is also used like a pole arm, it absolutely should have reach, especially if the law of pathfinder game physics apply to all weapons equally.

Shadow Lodge

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My problem with the armor table: materials. I'm making a druid, and our limitation of 'no metal armor' should be straight-forward. But I've seen plenty of 'Scale' armor out there made of leather, chiten, whatever. Also, how is Hide armor different from Leather armor?
Since there's no description, I could even do a Breastplate of 'not-metal' and be fine.


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ikarinokami wrote:
I'm still trying to understand how a great sword which is the same length as a polarm, doesn't have reach? so two weapons that have the same length, the great sword and the pole arm (halberd/gaive or other varieties), yet one has reach and one doesn't huh? A great sword is a sword that can be used like a sword, but is also used like a pole arm, it absolutely should have reach, especially if the law of pathfinder game physics apply to all weapons equally.

That is a point. Especially since the Bo Staff has reach. It's a six foot staff (it's full name Rokushakubo translates to Six Shaku Staff, the shaku being roughly a foot). I think most polearms were at least 8-10 feet, which is what I usually think of as the cutoff for reach.

But I figure the main reason not to give the greatsword reach, is it'd be just too good. No reach weapon has a D12 damage. Six of them have d8s, Three have d10s and one has a d4 (the whip). So a d12 with reach would be really good. Especially since as far as I can tell, reach doesn't have any issue with hitting adjacent spaces anymore. Without that drawback a d12 reach weapon would be pure win.


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thistledown wrote:

My problem with the armor table: materials. I'm making a druid, and our limitation of 'no metal armor' should be straight-forward. But I've seen plenty of 'Scale' armor out there made of leather, chiten, whatever. Also, how is Hide armor different from Leather armor?

Since there's no description, I could even do a Breastplate of 'not-metal' and be fine.

I think the main difference in hide and leather is that hide is non-tanned. But good point about the materials. There should probably be a reference somewhere. Like a Druid trait. Non-metallic scale and breastplates should probably have lower AC, but I don't think it's really addressed currently. I think there are some funky armors made out of monster parts or magical materials that are non-metallic Half and Full plate, but those are special cases.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

"If the fresh skin of an animal, cleaned and divested of all hair, fat, and other extraneous matter, be immersed in a dilute solution of tannic acid, a chemical combination ensues; the gelatinous tissue of the skin is converted into a nonputrescible substance, impervious to and insoluble in water; this is leather." Definition of leather according to the USMA Corps of Cadets (plebes have to memorize it, or at least they used to).


Hide armor represents both Hard Leather armors and those literally made from furs and raw-hides.


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Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ed Reppert wrote:
Yes, some were, at least. I was thinking of Merisiel though. I don't think hers is all that long or heavy.

The art in the Rogue section has Merisiel's rapier blade about as long her arm + her dagger's blade. So maybe 36"-40" which is a smallish real world rapier. Not really a shortsword even then.


thistledown wrote:

My problem with the armor table: materials. I'm making a druid, and our limitation of 'no metal armor' should be straight-forward. But I've seen plenty of 'Scale' armor out there made of leather, chiten, whatever. Also, how is Hide armor different from Leather armor?

Since there's no description, I could even do a Breastplate of 'not-metal' and be fine.

Leather armor is technically cuir bouilli, which is leather boiled to make it more durable. But with the removal of weapon and armor descriptions, there'd be no way to know that detail.

By the 1e CRB and 3.5 PHB descriptions, leather armor is specifically a leather breastplate, which is ironic, since that's the one style that doesn't exist historically. Boiled leather was actually typically used for the scales you mentioned or leather lamellar, although especially for a fantasy setting, leather plate as a third type wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

Meanwhile, hide armor is layered and untreated hides of animals, apparently mostly from stuff that had +4 natural armor.


thistledown wrote:

My problem with the armor table: materials. I'm making a druid, and our limitation of 'no metal armor' should be straight-forward. But I've seen plenty of 'Scale' armor out there made of leather, chiten, whatever. Also, how is Hide armor different from Leather armor?

Since there's no description, I could even do a Breastplate of 'not-metal' and be fine.

But there is already a bigger problem here: the ufcking absurdity of imagining an armor that does not use metal _anywhere_ in its construction, on top of the perplexing imbalance in why some druidic organization would be fine with the forging of scimitars but not of rivets.

More on-topic, just popping back in to say +1 to this thread's core theme that the tables and nomenclature are a mess.

[SARCASTIC FLAME WAR]But all y'all talking about how armor names are messed up but still using the term "chainmail" need to take a walk to clear your soggy brains.[/SARCASTIC FLAME WAR]


The Systems Agnostic wrote:
But there is already a bigger problem here: the ufcking absurdity of imagining an armor that does not use metal _anywhere_ in its construction, on top of the perplexing imbalance in why some druidic organization would be fine with the forging of scimitars but not of rivets.

Yeah, it has always been a weird and arbitrary restriction that druids can't wear metal armor. Especially since they can use metal tools and weapons, or wear metal jewelry, just not armor. This is one of those arbitrary and contradictory things that have been grandfathered in, that maybe should go the way of Arcane Spell Failure from armor.

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