Some Athletics actions need improvement

[Colette Brunel]

High Jump's critical failure needs to be removed. It is too slapstick, and a low-level character has a terribly high chance of falling flat on their face whenever they attempt to leap vertically.

Trip's critical success really needs to scale; 1d6 damage will hardly be noticeable in mid-level combat, let alone high-level combat.

Disarming seems wholly useless in Pathfinder 2e. You need a free hand (or possibly a disarming weapon?), you require a critical success to actually disarm the opponent, and even then, a critical success simply has the item drop in the opponent's space. Why would anyone bother with this?

[LoreKeeper]

The developers realized that disarm is just that good. You trip someone, they get up next turn and there's a bit of combat bonus for a round. You take away the special weapon/item and the tough fight becomes middling.

As it is, a dedicated disarmer (monk? fighter?) can make 3 attempts in a round to disarm; with a potential +2 bonus after the first attempt.
If there are actions left (or an ally is to hand), then a dropped item can be picked up from the opponent's space.

It's not that hard to make an opponent have to fight you with unarmed attacks. And for most foe's that is a massive reduction in DPS.

[Colette Brunel]

LoreKeeper wrote:

The developers realized that disarm is just that good. You trip someone, they get up next turn and there's a bit of combat bonus for a round. You take away the special weapon/item and the tough fight becomes middling.

As it is, a dedicated disarmer (monk? fighter?) can make 3 attempts in a round to disarm; with a potential +2 bonus after the first attempt.
If there are actions left (or an ally is to hand), then a dropped item can be picked up from the opponent's space.

It's not that hard to make an opponent have to fight you with unarmed attacks. And for most foe's that is a massive reduction in DPS.

They have to be wielding a weapon in the first place, you have to critically succeed on the disarm attempt, and even then, the item simply winds up in the opponent's space.

[JRutterbush]

Yeah, I think the "Success" part of Disarm should instead read "Until the start of that creature's turn, treat any successful Disarm against that item as a critical success instead."

[LoreKeeper]

Colette Brunel wrote:

They have to be wielding a weapon in the first place, you have to critically succeed on the disarm attempt, and even then, the item simply winds up in the opponent's space.

A critical success "only" requires exceeding the DC by 10. The odds aren't terrible for that.

[Sammy T]

That +2 on subsequent attacks is canceled out by the MAP of -5/-10.

[Threeshades]

I'm a bit confused. I thought having higher levels of proficiency in a skill would allow you to pull off much more impressive actions with that skill.

After reading about the barbarian's sudden leap feat, i immediately had this idea of a barbarian who just pounces across the field at an opponent, but when I then read the leap action and long and high jump activities I was rather disappointed. You can basically jump the result of your Athletics check - 5 in feet long and up to 8 feet high. So your proficiency alone adds anywhere betwen 2 and 5 feet to your average jump compared to an untrained jumper.

Now if you're expert in Athletics, you can take the powerful leap skill feat. But even with the Powerful leap feat you add a grand total of 5 feet to your length and 2 feet to your height.

I'm a bit underwhelmed right now. Is there something I'm missing, or is it just that there is no legendary leaper feat yet because its just the playtest?

[JRutterbush]

Threeshades wrote:

After reading about the barbarian's sudden leap feat

Based on the wording of Sudden Leap ("Even if you’re Leaping vertically, you determine the DC for the height you’re jumping using the DC of a Long Jump."), I think it's meant to allow you to jump a long-jump's distance vertically, so you can jump your Athletics check result -5 feet straight up to, for example, hit a flying enemy. If that's the case, then the language needs to be cleared up there.

If that's not the case, then it does at least drastically reduce the DC for the high jump (to 5 plus the height of the jump, instead of DC 30).

[LoreKeeper]

Sammy T wrote:

That +2 on subsequent attacks is canceled out by the MAP of -5/-10.

Edit: I stand corrected. I see it is an "attack" action and thus MAP applies