It looks like you are either paying money to make them so no resonance or the alchemist is using their resonance to make their daily allotment so those bombs are already "paid for" so you can hand those to party members to fling if necessary.Yep. And that works for me.
Wait. Does persistent damage stack/ping separately? Because that sounds horrifying.I believe Mark said that it's not intended to go off twice on one turn, but someone with Weakness 5 would take 6 damage each subsequent turn. Ouch.
If there is only a 1 or 2 point difference between AC and TAC ... ditch TAC.It's only 1-2 points different for high Dex characters. For low Dex characters it can easily be a 4 point swing. Combined with all swings mattering more, that's actually quite a big difference (the equivalent of up to an 8 point difference in PF1).
That makes a lot more sense, DMW. Thanks!
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As an aside, the flat check is lower on the rolls you get from spending an action. I have rarely seen the persistent damage go more than a round or two with those rolls.
That makes sense basically the only way it lasts a long time is if you just are ignoring the effect for some reason and letting it bang away at you. Still doing some damage and then forcing them to waste an action trying to stop the effect is very handy.
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As an aside, the flat check is lower on the rolls you get from spending an action. I have rarely seen the persistent damage go more than a round or two with those rolls.That makes sense basically the only way it lasts a long time is if you just are ignoring the effect for some reason and letting it bang away at you. Still doing some damage and then forcing them to waste an action trying to stop the effect is very handy.
Exactly, it's a nice way to do action denial but involving an actual choice for the character taking the persistent damage, rather than removing agency. Sure you could take all your normal actions if you want to let it tick for another round with little chance to remove it.
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I totally love it of course. What, what did you expect, that I don't like THE GOBLIN ALCHEMIST? Hell, I'd marry him.
I can't wait for the 2nd of August to be here.
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If there is only a 1 or 2 point difference between AC and TAC ... ditch TAC.
It's a bigger gap on bigger/heavily armored enemies. And alchemists/spellcasters need even a 1 or 2 point bonus, especially if crits are possible.
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If there is only a 1 or 2 point difference between AC and TAC ... ditch TAC.It's a bigger gap on bigger/heavily armored enemies. And alchemists/spellcasters need even a 1 or 2 point bonus, especially if crits are possible.
Yep, Fumbus is in leather armor, just about the lightest armor around (and thus the least gap between AC and TAC). You'll see a bigger gap for Valeros and Seelah!
Yep, Fumbus is in leather armor, just about the lightest armor around (and thus the least gap between AC and TAC). You'll see a bigger gap for Valeros and Seelah!If there is only a 1 or 2 point difference between AC and TAC ... ditch TAC.It's a bigger gap on bigger/heavily armored enemies. And alchemists/spellcasters need even a 1 or 2 point bonus, especially if crits are possible.
Valeros and Seelah OMG I'M SO EXCITED!!
But why does the alchemist fire have the rules for ending the persistent effect and not the acid?
Is the intent to add the "submerge in water/enter an airless environment" to the normal interacts that apply in all, unless specified otherwise cases? But you reprinted the usual rules for clarity?
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But why does the alchemist fire have the rules for ending the persistent effect and not the acid?
Is the intent to add the "submerge in water/enter an airless environment" to the normal interacts that apply in all, unless specified otherwise cases? But you reprinted the usual rules for clarity?
I think the Alchemist Fire one is Automatic remove of the debuff by spending the action. It would be an exception to the normal rules.
Ahh yes, failed my reading check.
I know that I'm going to sound like a crank, but I'm really unhappy that the first pregen we see is the goblin alchemist throwing bombs. That image and the priorities it reflects does nothing to encourage me to look forward to PF2e.
I know that I'm going to sound like a crank, but I'm really unhappy that the first pregen we see is the goblin alchemist throwing bombs. That image and the priorities it reflects does nothing to encourage me to look forward to PF2e.
I suspect the following:
1) Russ Morrisey of ENWorld decided in what order to do the previews.2) He's doing them in alphabetical order, since he announced he'd be doing the Cleric tomorrow.
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I know that I'm going to sound like a crank, but I'm really unhappy that the first pregen we see is the goblin alchemist throwing bombs. That image and the priorities it reflects does nothing to encourage me to look forward to PF2e.I suspect the following:
1) Russ Morrisey of ENWorld decided in what order to do the previews.
2) He's doing them in alphabetical order, since he announced he'd be doing the Cleric tomorrow.
Alphabetical seems likely. The intro we gave is for all of them depending on how they wanted to set this up!
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Yeah, I get that with the 4-Tiers of Success system every +1 really matters, but I still think there is a more elegant solution than a separate AC type (again, like they pulled with flat-footed), really has bothered me since August 2000.That makes a lot more sense, DMW. Thanks!It looks like you are either paying money to make them so no resonance or the alchemist is using their resonance to make their daily allotment so those bombs are already "paid for" so you can hand those to party members to fling if necessary.Yep. And that works for me.
Wait. Does persistent damage stack/ping separately? Because that sounds horrifying.I believe Mark said that it's not intended to go off twice on one turn, but someone with Weakness 5 would take 6 damage each subsequent turn. Ouch.
If there is only a 1 or 2 point difference between AC and TAC ... ditch TAC.It's only 1-2 points different for high Dex characters. For low Dex characters it can easily be a 4 point swing. Combined with all swings mattering more, that's actually quite a big difference (the equivalent of up to an 8 point difference in PF1).
We tried something like flat-footed for a short bit quite a while back, but in play it usually felt unsatisfying that using touch was an equal amount better against an unarmored monk and someone much less dodgy in a lot of armor or tough hide.
Alphabetical seems likely. The intro we gave is for all of them depending on how they wanted to set this up!I know that I'm going to sound like a crank, but I'm really unhappy that the first pregen we see is the goblin alchemist throwing bombs. That image and the priorities it reflects does nothing to encourage me to look forward to PF2e.I suspect the following:
1) Russ Morrisey of ENWorld decided in what order to do the previews.
2) He's doing them in alphabetical order, since he announced he'd be doing the Cleric tomorrow.
So either way we'll be seeing the Druid soon (yes I know it was on another thing, I haven't watched any podcasts).
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So either way we'll be seeing the Druid soon (yes I know it was on another thing, I haven't watched any podcasts).Alphabetical seems likely. The intro we gave is for all of them depending on how they wanted to set this up!I know that I'm going to sound like a crank, but I'm really unhappy that the first pregen we see is the goblin alchemist throwing bombs. That image and the priorities it reflects does nothing to encourage me to look forward to PF2e.I suspect the following:
1) Russ Morrisey of ENWorld decided in what order to do the previews.
2) He's doing them in alphabetical order, since he announced he'd be doing the Cleric tomorrow.
Nope, check the intro on the ENWorld article to see which ones were in our early demo batch (Jason chose the perfect set that, matched alongside the demo he wrote, showed off lots of cool changes in some really elegant ways, like weakness and resist, shields, etc).
Nope, check the intro on the ENWorld article to see which ones were in our early demo batch (Jason chose the perfect set that, matched alongside the demo he wrote, showed off lots of cool changes in some really elegant ways, like weakness and resist, shields, etc).So either way we'll be seeing the Druid soon (yes I know it was on another thing, I haven't watched any podcasts).
Eh, would have been weird to get it before the blog (which I am assuming is in a few mondays time) anyway.
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Eh, would have been weird to get it before the blog (which I am assuming is in a few mondays time) anyway.Nope, check the intro on the ENWorld article to see which ones were in our early demo batch (Jason chose the perfect set that, matched alongside the demo he wrote, showed off lots of cool changes in some really elegant ways, like weakness and resist, shields, etc).So either way we'll be seeing the Druid soon (yes I know it was on another thing, I haven't watched any podcasts).
Well we will be seeing it soon regardless there just are not that many Mondays left before all of the cats leap forth from bags.
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Well we will be seeing it soon regardless there just are not that many Mondays left before all of the cats leap forth from bags.
Will there still be blogs once the actual playtest is out? Less in the way of previews and more in the way of designer commentaries, here's a thing that might not be obvious but is interesting, that sort of thing.
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I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.
I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.
Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
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Alphabetical, indeed. Just going in order. :)Alphabetical seems likely. The intro we gave is for all of them depending on how they wanted to set this up!I know that I'm going to sound like a crank, but I'm really unhappy that the first pregen we see is the goblin alchemist throwing bombs. That image and the priorities it reflects does nothing to encourage me to look forward to PF2e.I suspect the following:
1) Russ Morrisey of ENWorld decided in what order to do the previews.
2) He's doing them in alphabetical order, since he announced he'd be doing the Cleric tomorrow.
Pathfinder must stop rigidly adhering to the alphabet used by D&D if it is ever to be truly free! Furthermore, bloiht shripll zrtk!
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I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
I believe Mark implied it was dex earlier with regards to giving Rogues and Rangers bombs.
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I believe Mark implied it was dex earlier with regards to giving Rogues and Rangers bombs.I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
Ahhh. Alas. That is essentially what I expected. I hope there are some ranged weapons with a keyword that adds your strength to accuracy, but I think it does make sense that hitting a foe with a bombs is more about finesse than raw power.
I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
Basketball players all over our world disagree with you.
That said, I don't mind if PF2e makes it Dex.
Am I the only one who read the Quick Bomber and had the image of Selene from Underworld turning as she threw those silver discs replaced by a goblin in a black wig turn around lobing two little vials of alchemist's fire wearing a wicked grin? Just sayin lol.
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There’s a lot to like here, but I have to say ... I dislike those action icons a lot. They are completely unintuitive and I predict they will quickly become really cumbersom in play.
Very curious to hear what peaople think of them in actual play ...
I really hope Paizo drops them and goes back to using actual words.
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There’s a lot to like here, but I have to say ... I dislike those action icons a lot. They are completely unintuitive and I predict they will quickly become really cumbersom in play.
Very curious to hear what peaople think of them in actual play ...
I really hope Paizo drops them and goes back to using actual words.
While there's an issue for the partially sighted as has been brought up before, now that I've seen them I doubt I'll forget them, and looking at the sheet I can actually pick it up at a skim.
While I didn't have any opinions on this before, for me at least and looking at an actual example I think I'm less likely to glaze over the number of actions than if it used words (though I suppose it's possible that the 2 action variant might take a split second longer to recognise when skimming)
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There’s a lot to like here, but I have to say ... I dislike those action icons a lot. They are completely unintuitive and I predict they will quickly become really cumbersom in play.
Very curious to hear what peaople think of them in actual play ...
I really hope Paizo drops them and goes back to using actual words.
Personally I really like them and wish it was easier to use them on my own sheets, they draw my eyes to them and helps me focus on the content better, as someone who sometimes has issues keeping her head on straight when reading things.
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The dogslicer seems surprisingly good
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The dogslicer seems surprisingly goodHate the name, goofy sounding, adolescent, garbage name, like sawtooth anything, that kind of crap.
So it fits goblins perfectly?
So it fits goblins perfectly?The dogslicer seems surprisingly goodHate the name, goofy sounding, adolescent, garbage name, like sawtooth anything, that kind of crap.
Yep. Great for kill-on-sight monster vermin.
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Yep. Great for kill-on-sight monster vermin.So it fits goblins perfectly?The dogslicer seems surprisingly goodHate the name, goofy sounding, adolescent, garbage name, like sawtooth anything, that kind of crap.
I think you mean player character vermin.
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I think you mean player character vermin.Yep. Great for kill-on-sight monster vermin.So it fits goblins perfectly?The dogslicer seems surprisingly goodHate the name, goofy sounding, adolescent, garbage name, like sawtooth anything, that kind of crap.
I don't. It's Golarion. A goblin is a goblin which means near-mindless murderous pyromaniac. If you give it a kick, it will just bite your leg. Dead is the only way.
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I don't. It's Golarion. A goblin is a goblin which means near-mindless murderous pyromaniac. If you give it a kick, it will just bite your leg. Dead is the only way.I think you mean player character vermin.Yep. Great for kill-on-sight monster vermin.So it fits goblins perfectly?The dogslicer seems surprisingly goodHate the name, goofy sounding, adolescent, garbage name, like sawtooth anything, that kind of crap.
Naw, man. Return of the Runelords has a time travel plot and someone is going to step on a fairy 50,000 years ago and then goblins are gonna be a bunch of chill bros. You'll see. They will be the chillest bros in Cheliax or whatever.
Full disclosure: I don't play in Golarion and have no dog in this fight (which is a stroke of luck given that dog slicers are about).
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Ahhh. Alas. That is essentially what I expected. I hope there are some ranged weapons with a keyword that adds your strength to accuracy, but I think it does make sense that hitting a foe with a bombs is more about finesse than raw power.I believe Mark implied it was dex earlier with regards to giving Rogues and Rangers bombs.I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
Strength can play a role though. The stronger you are the harder you can throw it and the faster it will travel and.the harder it will be to dodge. But I think if we wanted to get simulationist on here we would probably make it so that high strength increases the range of thrown object. But all that gets too complicated to be worth it I imagine.
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The dogslicer seems surprisingly good
Given that Fumbus has the Goblin Weapon Training Feat, it's probably a Martial weapon rather than a Simple one. Looks solid.
Naw, man. Return of the Runelords has a time travel plot and someone is going to step on a fairy 50,000 years ago and then goblins are gonna be a bunch of chill bros. You'll see. They will be the chillest bros in Cheliax or whatever.
Full disclosure: I don't play in Golarion and have no dog in this fight (which is a stroke of luck given that dog slicers are about).
I'm aware you're kidding, but for the record anyway:
All time travel in Return of the Runelords seems to be within a 10 year period or so [i]at the most/i]. There is no serious retconning time travel stuff.
@DMW
That is good to know. I actually assumed that folks would be traveling back to Thassalon or whatever. Admittedly, all of my knowledge w.r.t. that topic comes from half listening to last week’s Paizo Friday while at work. Even if I was being flip, I suppose that it was not the best idea to spread inaccurate information.
Strength can play a role though. The stronger you are the harder you can throw it and the faster it will travel and.the harder it will be to dodge. But I think if we wanted to get simulationist on here we would probably make it so that high strength increases the range of thrown object. But all that gets too complicated to be worth it I imagine.Ahhh. Alas. That is essentially what I expected. I hope there are some ranged weapons with a keyword that adds your strength to accuracy, but I think it does make sense that hitting a foe with a bombs is more about finesse than raw power.I believe Mark implied it was dex earlier with regards to giving Rogues and Rangers bombs.I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
Well, I was thinking that thrown weapons could key off either strength or dex, potentially. That would move towards creating more parity between strength and dex as stats since it would give str builds ranged options in the same way dex builds have finesse melee options. That said, such a thing can happen just as well through certain weapons having a “strength to throw” keyword.
Wait. "Though you have already spent most of your Resonance Points crafting alchemical items during your daily preparations..."
So an alchemist is going to have to decide between having bombs and utilizing magic items? Hopefully bombs are a minor part of the PF2 alchemist then.
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Naw, man. Return of the Runelords has a time travel plot and someone is going to step on a fairy 50,000 years ago and then goblins are gonna be a bunch of chill bros. You'll see. They will be the chillest bros in Cheliax or whatever.
Full disclosure: I don't play in Golarion and have no dog in this fight (which is a stroke of luck given that dog slicers are about).
I'm aware you're kidding, but for the record anyway:
All time travel in Return of the Runelords seems to be within a 10 year period or so [i]at the most/i]. There is no serious retconning time travel stuff.
I recently finished running Reign Of Winter, and as part of extending the campaign the party did a bit of time travel. The story is that Baba Yaga gained her 9th and 10th mythic tier by killing Aroden and opening the Worldwound.
As the final arc, the party had to find the Orb of Dragonkind, figure out a way to destroy it releasing the soul of the entrapped Great Wyrm Time Dragon, then True Res her so that she would send them back in time. All so they could intervene, keep Baba Yaga from gaining the immortality mythic power, and finally kill her for good.
Since my next DMed games will be the playtest, that's my in-game rationale for the PF2 changes - the players changed history in earth shattering ways, and this is the result.
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Wait. "Though you have already spent most of your Resonance Points crafting alchemical items during your daily preparations..."
So an alchemist is going to have to decide between having bombs and utilizing magic items? Hopefully bombs are a minor part of the PF2 alchemist then.
I believe they have class features that gives them more resonance and lets their resonance scale from int. It’s a thing.
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@DMW
That is good to know. I actually assumed that folks would be traveling back to Thassalon or whatever. Admittedly, all of my knowledge w.r.t. that topic comes from half listening to last week’s Paizo Friday while at work. Even if I was being flip, I suppose that it was not the best idea to spread inaccurate information.Well, I was thinking that thrown weapons could key off either strength or dex, potentially. That would move towards creating more parity between strength and dex as stats since it would give str builds ranged options in the same way dex builds have finesse melee options. That said, such a thing can happen just as well through certain weapons having a “strength to throw” keyword.Strength can play a role though. The stronger you are the harder you can throw it and the faster it will travel and.the harder it will be to dodge. But I think if we wanted to get simulationist on here we would probably make it so that high strength increases the range of thrown object. But all that gets too complicated to be worth it I imagine.Ahhh. Alas. That is essentially what I expected. I hope there are some ranged weapons with a keyword that adds your strength to accuracy, but I think it does make sense that hitting a foe with a bombs is more about finesse than raw power.I believe Mark implied it was dex earlier with regards to giving Rogues and Rangers bombs.I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
Thrown weapons working off STR seems to work OK in 5e, FWIW. But I feel like that is the sort of thing which runs counter to PF2's policy of "make classes more MAD, but make MAD easier to support through ability boosts." I mean, many strength based melee characters will have dex not too far behind their strength. The ones I see having trouble with that are melee cleric types who already have other ranged options.
Thrown weapons working off STR seems to work OK in 5e, FWIW. But I feel like that is the...@DMW
That is good to know. I actually assumed that folks would be traveling back to Thassalon or whatever. Admittedly, all of my knowledge w.r.t. that topic comes from half listening to last week’s Paizo Friday while at work. Even if I was being flip, I suppose that it was not the best idea to spread inaccurate information.Well, I was thinking that thrown weapons could key off either strength or dex, potentially. That would move towards creating more parity between strength and dex as stats since it would give str builds ranged options in the same way dex builds have finesse melee options. That said, such a thing can happen just as well through certain weapons having a “strength to throw” keyword.Strength can play a role though. The stronger you are the harder you can throw it and the faster it will travel and.the harder it will be to dodge. But I think if we wanted to get simulationist on here we would probably make it so that high strength increases the range of thrown object. But all that gets too complicated to be worth it I imagine.Ahhh. Alas. That is essentially what I expected. I hope there are some ranged weapons with a keyword that adds your strength to accuracy, but I think it does make sense that hitting a foe with a bombs is more about finesse than raw power.I believe Mark implied it was dex earlier with regards to giving Rogues and Rangers bombs.I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
I think DEX-to-damage is worse than online image sharing communities (so pretty damn bad), and I would hate to see STR-based throwing accuracy. STR should just factor into the damage.
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I think DEX-to-damage is worse than online image sharing communities (so pretty damn bad), and I would hate to see STR-based throwing accuracy. STR should just factor into the damage.
While I don't share your hatred of dex to damage, I can understand your objections to it and don't actually think we need it. I'm currently guessing dex to damage and other stat switches will very much be exceptions and not the rule, and probably class specific.
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I dunno. I feel like Dex to damage is ultimately going to matter extremely little in terms of optimization in PF2E but strength builds lacking ranged accuracy can potentially matter quite a bit given the new crit system.
Like: can’t the game be balanced around strength builds getting top tier melee weapons and second tier ranged weapon while Dex gets the opposite (especially given that Dex matters for saves and AC already)?
This is only very tangentially related to our dear friend Fumbus.