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Okay guys, today it's self-evident I don't have much to do, because I'm apparently trying to single-handedly conquer the forums.
With that out of the way, please help me translate a party of characters from D&D 4e to Pathfinder, would you?
Essentially, back when I was just out of school and looking for a job, I still had quite a bit of spare time, and not a lot of contact with my boyz and grrrlz. So I decided to play 4e on my own while writing a novel about the campaign.
Yes, it is incredibly pathetic. I would also do it all again in a heartbeat if I found a good system/setting combo (which maybe I'm close to with PF2). I'm really that much of a geek.
So anyways, the characters were:
My homonym, an artificer, who would be an Ulfen alchemist from Alkenstar here. Perhaps multiclassing as ranger for 1-2 levels to shoot real well, because she really had a killer aim, but with the right feats I might forgo that.
Her ex-boyfriend, a very bishounen eladrin swordmage from the Winter Court. He was very haughty and aloof and thought himself superior to mortals by virtue of being an eladrin noble. Also had some Oedipal nonsense going on. Imagine Prince Nuada from Hellboy 2 or Sephiroth from FF7. He also was very power-thirsty and didn't care one bit from where that power came from, so he wielded a demonic sword, and the kind of flavor more commonly seen on warlocks would be right at home with him. What could he be in PF? I thought snowcaster elf but they're more inclined towards ranger than, say, magus. He was nobility, "and don't you forget it". I think I could also see him as a dhampir, though. From Ustalav perhaps, like, very clichéd, hell yeah?
Then there was this shifter ranger who actually was more like a barbarian in many ways. No armor, big muscles, sword and shield, and he might be a catfolk/amurr(r?)un considering he looked a lot like Leo from Red Earth or Digimon's Leomon. Which book has the straight dope about catfolks, Races of the Inner Sea perhaps? If so, what else? Do they come from Garund?
There was a druid, too, although she was also a rogue. She was a real trickster figure. I really liked her. She thought spirits were "cool" and talked to them like you would with your buddies. I'm wondering where could she come from, some kind of tribal culture - maybe Kellid, or Shoanti, or - is there someone who lives in very close proximity with the kami in Tian-Xia? She was a human with deva (aasimar) ancestry, but she could be... anything, more or less. But probably not too different from human. I mean, not a ratfolk from Akiton (although that would be fun).
Finally there was the one I'm having the most problems with, Shamash, a dragonborn avenger. Okay, he looks like Garr from Breath of Fire 3 - essentially a very big and powerful gargoyle/dragon-man in a gi, with rosary beads as well (my version had his god's holy symbol instead of rosary beads, but that's all ephemeral) - and a rather impressive guan dao. I'm thinking for class he could be a mostly strength-based monk, but the guan dao needs to stay - or at least a glaive. Can we have monks with big glaives? Who mercilessly destroy wave after wave of mooks and terrorize evil-doers with a single blood-chilling glance, like?
But it's his ancestry that I can't quite place. In theory wyvarans are the closest you get to dragonborn in PF, but my impression is that they have somewhat canine snouts, and that they're not big and ppwerful enough. I also checked nagaji, who are big strong reptiles, mostly, but am still not convinced. Then there are trox, who are really, really big... I'd have to try and raise his mental abilities in that case, though, and they honestly don't look anything like him except for the overall color and the fact they're... really damn big. And after that I don't have any other ideas.
I mean, PF has a lot of extremely cool ancestries/races/species but - if I were to try and import these guys, how could that work in your opinion?
And of course anticipated thanks even just for reading this whole delirious post, folks. Much appreciated.
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My homonym, an artificer, who would be an Ulfen alchemist from Alkenstar here. Perhaps multiclassing as ranger for 1-2 levels to shoot real well, because she really had a killer aim, but with the right feats I might forgo that.
That sounds solid, yeah. I'd probably go with the Grenadier Archetype over levels in Ranger. It gives you the ability to use a bow and is generally useful if you don't care about poisons.
Her ex-boyfriend, a very bishounen eladrin swordmage from the Winter Court. He was very haughty and aloof and thought himself superior to mortals by virtue of being an eladrin noble. Also had some Oedipal nonsense going on. Imagine Prince Nuada from Hellboy 2 or Sephiroth from FF7. He also was very power-thirsty and didn't care one bit from where that power came from, so he wielded a demonic sword, and the kind of flavor more commonly seen on warlocks would be right at home with him. What could he be in PF? I thought snowcaster elf but they're more inclined towards ranger than, say, magus. He was nobility, "and don't you forget it". I think I could also see him as a dhampir, though. From Ustalav perhaps, like, very clichéd, hell yeah?
I'd personally go Elf here. There are some arrogant Elven nobility in Kyonin, and being pale would be no obstacle to being one. Magus is the obvious Class choice.
Then there was this shifter ranger who actually was more like a barbarian in many ways. No armor, big muscles, sword and shield, and he might be a catfolk/amurr(r?)un considering he looked a lot like Leo from Red Earth or Digimon's Leomon. Which book has the straight dope about catfolks, Races of the Inner Sea perhaps? If so, what else? Do they come from Garund?
Catfolk do indeed come from Garund. As another option, skinwalkers are descended from lycanthropes and basically Eberron shifters with the serial numbers filed off, so that's another solid Race option. Ranger remains the obvious Class choice, though you could also go Slayer for a more martial bent by ditching spellcasting (especially if going Catfolk, who have a Wis penalty).
There was a druid, too, although she was also a rogue. She was a real trickster figure. I really liked her. She thought spirits were "cool" and talked to them like you would with your buddies. I'm wondering where could she come from, some kind of tribal culture - maybe Kellid, or Shoanti, or - is there someone who lives in very close proximity with the kami in Tian-Xia? She was a human with deva (aasimar) ancestry, but she could be... anything, more or less. But probably not too different from human. I mean, not a ratfolk from Akiton (although that would be fun).
A Human or Aasimar Druid seems a fine idea here. If willing to make things fiddlier, you could go Shaman, who are all about dealing with Spirits.
Finally there was the one I'm having the most problems with, Shamash, a dragonborn avenger. Okay, he looks like Garr from Breath of Fire 3 - essentially a very big and powerful gargoyle/dragon-man in a gi, with rosary beads as well (my version had his god's holy symbol instead of rosary beads, but that's all ephemeral) - and a rather impressive guan dao. I'm thinking for class he could be a mostly strength-based monk, but the guan dao needs to stay - or at least a glaive. Can we have monks with big glaives? Who mercilessly destroy wave after wave of mooks and terrorize evil-doers with a single blood-chilling glance, like?
But it's his ancestry that I can't quite place. In theory wyvarans are the closest you get to dragonborn in PF, but my impression is that they have somewhat canine snouts, and that they're not big and ppwerful enough. I also checked nagaji, who are big strong reptiles, mostly, but am still not convinced. Then there are trox, who are really, really big... I'd have to try and raise his mental abilities in that case, though, and they honestly don't look anything like him except for the overall color and the fact they're... really damn big. And after that I don't have any other ideas.
Have you considered Human (or Half Orc, or whatever) Bloodrager with the Draconic Bloodline? That'd fit most of what you're talking about and make him very Dragon-y indeed.
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All suggestions obviously PF1, since races beyond the core are not available in PF2 for...awhile anyway.
In PF2, Classes would mostly stay the same (you'd probably need to do something weird with multiclassing for the Swordmage) but you'd need to fiddle with the Shifter's Ancestry into something else and almost certainly do the same for the Dragonborn (though a Monk or Barbarian multiclass into Sorcerer might still work there).
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A guan dao is a fauchard or glaive in all but name, in mechanical terms, as I read them.
No idea how well PF2 monks are going to play with polearms, at least not during the playtest window. Maybe just play things a teeny bit loose with Ascetic Style feats and be done with it?
Perhaps a Master of Many Styles with Ascetic and Dragon styles early, picking up other thematic styles later, or multi-classing into whichever archetype of Fighter it is that uses Really Big Weapons at a certain point to pick up some of the more entertaining advanced weapon training options as well as going full anime with the guan dao.
DMW has rock-solid suggestions on the rest of the characters.
Okay, I'm gonna use PF2 actually, should've specified. Pretty friggin' stupid of me to assume, especially considering, as you say, we don't have a lot of appropriate classes and ancestries right now. But I think the ancestries will come ... *relatively* soon (still after the playtest, anyways...), and more classes... I don't know, honestly.
It's more of a thought excercise. Which I'm obsessing over a little.
My homonym was actually a tinkerer archetype with a clockwork scout instead of a mutagen in PF1. I'll have to see what options we'll have in 2, but she's basically gonna be an alchemist, everything else is just gravy.
The eladrin would indeed work as a normal Kyonin elf, yeah. I'll either wait for the magus class or make him a multiclass fighter/wizard... which wouldn't be the right flavor, I think. I can totally wait.
The shifter is actually better as an amurrun, shifters usually look much more humanlike than him, and skinwalkers are very similar. Also, ranger wasn't a good fit for him, barbarian will probably be better. No big problems with him, I'll just have to look around for more info about catfolk.
The trickster would be a great shaman, indeed! I hope we get that class "soon", too. I would still multiclass her as a rogue I think, because trickster, and knife-throwing, but shaman would be a very good fit. I'm thinking aasimar, full human, samsaran, not sure - but really would like her to come from Tian-Xia. I just don't remember any good tribal, shamanic culture with at least a passing relationship with kami... maybe tian-sing have that kind of culture, generally speaking. But I'll really need to check the Dragon Empires Gazetteer. I think there are villages on the border of the Forest of Spirits in Minkai, but Minata would also be good for a shaman. I just don't know how widespread kami are there.
Shamash... if he were, say, a half-orc draconic bloodline bloodrager, would he be very dragony? Like, THISdragony? I thought bloodlines didn't manifest themselves in your actual appearance.
I think he'd be a good monk, flavor-wise, but as far as you know, can 2nd ed monks wield polearms in general? Maybe I could multiclass him as fighter too, actually! Although I'd still avoid true armor, but weapon combos would be right up his alley! And/or maybe paladin... huh. So many possibilities.
Oh, and I thought of another way he could *perhaps* look like a dragon (well, easiest would be if he could be a half-dragon, but I doubt Paizo will allow that for pcs) - there's the draconal, an agathion that looks like a dragon-person. If he were an aasimar, and *really, really, really* took after his celestial ancestor, he would look like a dragon too.
I don't really know. He could be a very buff wyvaran... a nagaji, although they don't look all that dragony after all, but they're strong and reptilian... a very weird aasimar... a trox, totally out of left field and in need of boosts to all 3 mental stats... or as you say a dragon bloodline 1st level bloodrager who would immediately become a monk, or at least have a monk-ish background.
Shamash is my nightmare, I swear =)
A guan dao is a fauchard or glaive in all but name, in mechanical terms, as I read them.
... A fauchard?!... a FAUCHARD?!!...
... You know, you're totally right. Guan dao look a lot more like fauchards than glaives. I was mixing my polearms. Great hoplologist you are, Ros.
Sry X)
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Well ... on the spirit talking side of things in that general area, there are the Erukaji of the far north that sometimes speak Senzar (the kami language of Golarion). Any group noted for speaking Senzar should do the trick.
IIRC from Jade Regent, kami are abundantly present in the Forest of Spirits. Minkaian that knows Common (Taldane, Tien), Minkaian and Senzar gets that character started.
Nagaji are basically watered-down serpentfolk.
Wyvaran with "draconic leanings" might fit the bill better than Idyllkin aasimar. That's how my Giantslayer group's wyvaran is doing the "dragon-man" shtick. Don't remember what was filed off - think the creature type was altered from dragon to humanoid (wyvaran) or something, otherwise they're a pretty potent creature type natively.
The Kyonin noble elf as a multi-classed fighter/wizard should be able to make a bee-line for Eldritch Knight (presuming Nouveau Pathfinder has prestige classes of some form).
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Shamash... if he were, say, a half-orc draconic bloodline bloodrager, would he be very dragony? Like, THISdragony? I thought bloodlines didn't manifest themselves in your actual appearance.
Depends on the Bloddline and situation. I mean 12th level Draconic Bloodragers literally grow wings. So that might be plausible.
I think he'd be a good monk, flavor-wise, but as far as you know, can 2nd ed monks wield polearms in general? Maybe I could multiclass him as fighter too, actually! Although I'd still avoid true armor, but weapon combos would be right up his alley! And/or maybe paladin... huh. So many possibilities.
Actually, I just remembered there's a Dragon Totem Barbarian in PF2 (who can also get wings, as well as a breath weapon), and that Totem powers probably stick when you aren't even Raging.
So Barbarian/Monk maybe?
Oh, and I thought of another way he could *perhaps* look like a dragon (well, easiest would be if he could be a half-dragon, but I doubt Paizo will allow that for pcs) - there's the draconal, an agathion that looks like a dragon-person. If he were an aasimar, and *really, really, really* took after his celestial ancestor, he would look like a dragon too.
This is potentially plausible, yeah, though I don't think it gives you wings.
I advocate making the dragonborn a kobold. Or, for playtest purposes, a goblin. Use your strength score to be a hulking brute, but a goblin might hit the monstrous character notes that a dragonborn does, at least for me.
Well ... on the spirit talking side of things in that general area, there are the Erukaji of the far north that sometimes speak Senzar (the kami language of Golarion). Any group noted for speaking Senzar should do the trick.
IIRC from Jade Regent, kami are abundantly present in the Forest of Spirits. Minkaian that knows Common (Taldane, Tien), Minkaian and Senzar gets that character started.
Nagaji are basically watered-down serpentfolk.
Wyvaran with "draconic leanings" might fit the bill better than Idyllkin aasimar. That's how my Giantslayer group's wyvaran is doing the "dragon-man" shtick. Don't remember what was filed off - think the creature type was altered from dragon to humanoid (wyvaran) or something, otherwise they're a pretty potent creature type natively.
The Kyonin noble elf as a multi-classed fighter/wizard should be able to make a bee-line for Eldritch Knight (presuming Nouveau Pathfinder has prestige classes of some form).
Wow, that's a lot of useful info Comrade! Let's see... Erutaki are almost perfect, but Kat originally came from a hot tropical region, so a Tian-Min able to speak Senzar would at least not go around in heavy furs (I didn't even know Senzar *existed*! XD ). Yes, kami are to the Forest of Spirits as angry fae are to the Verduran - actually, probably even more numerous. It would really be perfect, I think. Minata is more tropical and tribal, but I haven't had the time to read about it today and I don't know whether kami are numerous or scarce there (I presume the latter - the Philippines have nothing in common with Japan and Shinto).
Yeah, Nagaji are very snakelike. There's a pic around with a fairly buff nagaji, but still... let's leave them as a back up plan in case all else fails.
Wyvaran with draconic leanings you say... but yeah, they cost too much usually for a 1st level character, right? Huh. We'll need to see how other ancestries translate to "Nouveau" PF ;) Tell me a little about your group's wyvaran, please? Just curious...
Yeah, the Kyonin elf could multiclass fighter/wizard and go for eldritch knight in absence of the magus, if eldritch knight is a prestige class. Could be an archetype... could not even exist and leave the place completely to the magus. I think we'll have a magus later on, but right now it's very hard to know how things will develop...
Shamash... if he were, say, a half-orc draconic bloodline bloodrager, would he be very dragony? Like, THISdragony? I thought bloodlines didn't manifest themselves in your actual appearance.Depends on the Bloddline and situation. I mean 12th level Draconic Bloodragers literally grow wings. So that might be plausible.
I think he'd be a good monk, flavor-wise, but as far as you know, can 2nd ed monks wield polearms in general? Maybe I could multiclass him as fighter too, actually! Although I'd still avoid true armor, but weapon combos would be right up his alley! And/or maybe paladin... huh. So many possibilities.Actually, I just remembered there's a Dragon Totem Barbarian in PF2 (who can also get wings, as well as a breath weapon), and that Totem powers probably stick when you aren't even Raging.
So Barbarian/Monk maybe?
Oh, and I thought of another way he could *perhaps* look like a dragon (well, easiest would be if he could be a half-dragon, but I doubt Paizo will allow that for pcs) - there's the draconal, an agathion that looks like a dragon-person. If he were an aasimar, and *really, really, really* took after his celestial ancestor, he would look like a dragon too.This is potentially plausible, yeah, though I don't think it gives you wings.
Huh! Interesting stuff... I didn't know there's a totem that lets you sprout wings and breathe fire, that's so cool! In that case barbarian/monk nagaji or draconal idyllkin perhaps. I think aasimar tend towards humanoid facial features too much... but nagaji really seem to lack a snout, too, they're noseless, with thin nostrils above a lipless mouth... wyvarans have noses like dogs! XD I'm not even sure why since kobolds are so dragon-like in PF, I think I remember they were more doglike (but scaly) in old D&D editions...
So I think he'll be a barbarian/monk/fighter/paladin, right! XD J/k of course! =)
I advocate making the dragonborn a kobold. Or, for playtest purposes, a goblin. Use your strength score to be a hulking brute, but a goblin might hit the monstrous character notes that a dragonborn does, at least for me.
Oh, no, I wouldn't need to. I'm running Doomsday Dawn, for my friends, so we'll playtest the s**t out of that. And when we're done we'll probably make different characters and I'll prep a new campaign for them, and give feedback on that too. And so on until Paizo publishes a new AP for 2e and more character options, or we decide to give it a break and try out Eclipse Phase.
This is all just a very geeky thought experiment for now, with the not-so-secret hope that one day I'll manage to translate that party to PF and play on my own as I had done in the past, while writing down some fiction about it, to pass the time.
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Wow, that's a lot of useful info Comrade! Let's see... Erutaki are almost perfect, but Kat originally came from a hot tropical region, so a Tian-Min able to speak Senzar would at least not go around in heavy furs (I didn't even know Senzar *existed*! XD ). Yes, kami are to the Forest of Spirits as angry fae are to the Verduran - actually, probably even more numerous. It would really be perfect, I think. Minata is more tropical and tribal, but I haven't had the time to read about it today and I don't know whether kami are numerous or scarce there (I presume the latter - the Philippines have nothing in common with Japan and Shinto).
Yeah, Nagaji are very snakelike. There's a pic around with a fairly buff nagaji, but still... let's leave them as a back up plan in case all else fails.
Wyvaran with draconic leanings you say... but yeah, they cost too much usually for a 1st level character, right? Huh. We'll need to see how other ancestries translate to "Nouveau" PF ;) Tell me a little about your group's wyvaran, please? Just curious...
Yeah, the Kyonin elf could multiclass fighter/wizard and go for eldritch knight in absence of the magus, if eldritch knight is a prestige class. Could be an archetype... could not even exist and leave the place completely to the magus. I think we'll have a magus later on, but right now it's very hard to know how things will develop...
I remember what did with the wyvaran now: changed creature type from dragon to humanoid (reptilian) and called it a day. This address the "price" of wyvaran as a race since otherwise they're ... okay. Clumsy and slow winged flight takes a lot of ranks in Fly to overcome. Think we added in a bite as a secondary natural weapon, something else I don't remember since it wasn't Anne and I wasn't heavily involved in creating the character.
During the course of the campaign the GM has added in a few dragon-themed improvements for Rudyard. One of which is a single-use breath weapon that is powered by devouring the heart of a freshly slain true dragon a la Skyrim.
The big upside to Eldritch Knight - presuming it mostly stays about like it currently is - is that it is a full-BAB prestige class with almost-full arcane spell casting progression. At the end-game levels you should have access to all but the 10th level Nouveau Pathfinder spells. clashing rocks is a pretty sweet spell to smoosh some bad guys with.
I would imagine any area loosely based on the Philippines to have an abundance of kami from which to learn Senzar. At least based on what tiny scraps of Philippine folklore I remember. Minata you probably know more about than I do at this point!
Wow, that's a lot of useful info Comrade! Let's see... Erutaki are almost perfect, but Kat originally came from a hot tropical region, so a Tian-Min able to speak Senzar would at least not go around in heavy furs (I didn't even know Senzar *existed*! XD ). Yes, kami are to the Forest of Spirits as angry fae are to the Verduran - actually, probably even more numerous. It would really be perfect, I think. Minata is more tropical and tribal, but I haven't had the time to read about it today and I don't know whether kami are numerous or scarce there (I presume the latter - the Philippines have nothing in common with Japan and Shinto).
Yeah, Nagaji are very snakelike. There's a pic around with a fairly buff nagaji, but still... let's leave them as a back up plan in case all else fails.
Wyvaran with draconic leanings you say... but yeah, they cost too much usually for a 1st level character, right? Huh. We'll need to see how other ancestries translate to "Nouveau" PF ;) Tell me a little about your group's wyvaran, please? Just curious...
Yeah, the Kyonin elf could multiclass fighter/wizard and go for eldritch knight in absence of the magus, if eldritch knight is a prestige class. Could be an archetype... could not even exist and leave the place completely to the magus. I think we'll have a magus later on, but right now it's very hard to know how things will develop...
I remember what did with the wyvaran now: changed creature type from dragon to humanoid (reptilian) and called it a day. This address the "price" of wyvaran as a race since otherwise they're ... okay. Clumsy and slow winged flight takes a lot of ranks in Fly to overcome. Think we added in a bite as a secondary natural weapon, something else I don't remember since it wasn't Anne and I wasn't heavily involved in creating the character.
During the course of the campaign the GM has added in a few dragon-themed improvements for Rudyard. One of which is a single-use breath weapon that is powered by devouring...
Rudyard sounds pretty cool! I hope Paizo will give us baseline wyvarans as an ancestry in the coming years, even in case I won't end up using them for Shamash.
Yes, Eldritch Knight works like that now, but as a prestige archetype, I'm not seeing it. I wouldn't know how that could work. Also, magus is better because you essentially can do magic-fuelled combos.
I think.
I mean you can use battle magic. Fighter magic. Like a bloodrager. Like wrapping your sword in green flames before hitting. Like Ciri-ing from one enemy to another to another slashing at them all. Like summoning enchanted armor over your body.
I would also like to be able to shift into a colony of bats for some reason, which tied to the dhampyr possibility. I would like some dark/fiendish flavor for this character.
Well, kami are Japanese, but you're right at the very least regarding the Tagalog, they used to believe in spirits (and gods, but also spirits) so Minata could have kami just like Minkai or the Forest of Spirits. Not as many as near the Forest, alas, but still... after all they're just ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE CONTINENT XD
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kami is just a word from a language. Mechanical kami can go under whatever name suits the local culture. Keep them using Senzar, you're good to go!
Going on memory - very dim memory - the indigenous folklore is incredibly diverse and rich. "Filing off the serial numbers" (aka, change the name 'kami' to whatever awesome Tagalog name it is that I am not currently recalling at the moment) works wonders. You have stat blocks to use for the flavor text, folklore/mythology/tales of wherever you're borrowing from. Saves a lot of time in game prep!
Eldritch Knight gets access to all of the Pathfinder sorcerer/wizard spells. If nothing else, reflavor an otherwise suitable spell to convey the "colony of bats" and call it a day. Higher level (polymorph) spells I am certain can do exactly that. Bat swarm, for example, shouldn't be too hard to replicate I think.
kami is just a word from a language. Mechanical kami can go under whatever name suits the local culture. Keep them using Senzar, you're good to go!
Going on memory - very dim memory - the indigenous folklore is incredibly diverse and rich. "Filing off the serial numbers" (aka, change the name 'kami' to whatever awesome Tagalog name it is that I am not currently recalling at the moment) works wonders. You have stat blocks to use for the flavor text, folklore/mythology/tales of wherever you're borrowing from. Saves a lot of time in game prep!
Eldritch Knight gets access to all of the Pathfinder sorcerer/wizard spells. If nothing else, reflavor an otherwise suitable spell to convey the "colony of bats" and call it a day. Higher level (polymorph) spells I am certain can do exactly that. Bat swarm, for example, shouldn't be too hard to replicate I think.
Anito - they're quite similar to spirits in other animistic religions in general, although they have more cultural influences from Hinduism than Shinto. On one hand it could work, Tian-Min might call them a different way but they might still be kami - or even more likely, kami are just kami, and everyone calls them that no matter what language they speak. On the other hand we have a boatload of different creatures from various cultures in different regions - divs and peri in Thuvia, genies and ghul in Kelesh, linnorms in the Linnorm Kingdoms, rakshasa and garuda in Vudra, couatl and skinwalkers in Arcadia, cyclops in Iblydos, sphinxes and shabti in Osirion... so it might be, for instance, that in Minata kami are fewer than garuda.
That said, I'm loading the Dragon Empires pdf once and for all and fact-checking now.
Yes, you can certainly polymorph into a bunch of different things... I was thinking of some kind of spell that lets you evade an attack by shifting into a colony of bats, fly away and reform, but even polymorphs are still *something*. Alternately, the Kyonin elf might be a demonic bloodline sorcerer, influenced by Treerazer and his minions, to get that kind of flavor... or maybe a witch, the closest class in Golarion to a D&D warlock... both would have to either multiclass into fighter or take an appropriate martial archetype, though. While instead, if he were to start out as a magus, we'd probably see, sooner or later, some kind of fiendish archetype, something like the demoniac or, probably even better, the diabolist - I think this would be the optimal build, always based on supposition of course.
Thank you, Comrade, you're a good sounding board!
... Now, let's check Dragon Empires...
... Okay, so: Minata is not just the Philippines but probably also Malaysia and Indonesia, at least it appears so. Kami are everywhere in Tian Xia (and a few can be met even outside, likely in Casmaron or even in the Inner Sea region, although that's not typical) *but* the highest concentration is indeed the Forest, by far, followed by nearby regions. Also, the northern reaches of Minkai are very lightly civilized, so tribal communities along the edge of the Forest are quite fitting.
All in all I would say Kat should be a Tian-Min shaman/rogue from northern Minkai... now I've gotta find a more Tian-Min-sounding name than Kat ;)
Btw, Tian Xia is a pretty awesome setting, and I love how they different the various ethnicities and cultures are. But we've only seen the Jade Regent AP set there, and probably a few modules... I'd like more material on it going forward. I was noticing for instance in Races of the Wastes not just Inner Sea nations, but also Tian Xia territories are touched upon.
And Arcadia and Casmaron! And southern Garund! I wanna see more of Golarion!
You could also simply "flavor" the character's assorted spells as any of a variety of bat-themed effects - so the "displays" or "manifestations" (what is seen and heard) are bat-themed, but otherwise (in game mechanics) are XYZ spells.
Exploding Bat = fireball.
Various divinations could manifest as one or more bats' echolocation providing the results (detect magic, see invisible) or a bat-like entity is communed with, potentially to the consternation of one's allies (contact other plane, legend lore) or the like.
Abjurations could manifest as an assortment of bat-themed effects: mage armor is a barely-visible "bat breastplate", for an easy example.
Perhaps fly sprouts particularly nimble bat wings from your shoulders while under its effects, whereas feather fall are swarms of bats that briefly appear around the target(s) that provide the spell's effect.
You could also simply "flavor" the character's assorted spells as any of a variety of bat-themed effects - so the "displays" or "manifestations" (what is seen and heard) are bat-themed, but otherwise (in game mechanics) are XYZ spells.
Exploding Bat = fireball.
Various divinations could manifest as one or more bats' echolocation providing the results (detect magic, see invisible) or a bat-like entity is communed with, potentially to the consternation of one's allies (contact other plane, legend lore) or the like.
Abjurations could manifest as an assortment of bat-themed effects: mage armor is a barely-visible "bat breastplate", for an easy example.
Perhaps fly sprouts particularly nimble bat wings from your shoulders while under its effects, whereas feather fall are swarms of bats that briefly appear around the target(s) that provide the spell's effect.
Well, first, the elf isn't obsessed with bats - that was just an example, something that vampires sometimes do, but remember also Ciri's Blink and Charge abilities, for instance.
Secondarily, messing up too much with... "canon", as it were - with the default way things should be, it's not something I relish. Deciding the color of a fireball's flames, or of a magic missile's projectiles, sure; saying my mage armor appears as a slight blurring in the air, like haze, or wraps me in small electrical currents, yeah, why not; but too much reskinning, and I feel I'm... getting dangerously far from what something's supposed to be.
For instance, in PF1 I could totally create a dragon-man race for Shamash using the rules for it. But why would I? I want to play in Golarion, not in a parallel world where dragon-men are actually a thing. If I start changing that, maybe then I'll want to change other things too, and while that makes the setting more unique, it also makes it less coherent imo.
It's difficult to explain, because it appears I'm the only one feeling like this, but I somehow take comfort in canon.
No, you are not alone on that sentiment, Roswynn.
There are feats, traits, et al that permit a spellcaster to obscure their spells' displays without the ability delineating what the specific differences are. The major mechanical benefit of these things is that they make DCs to determine what you're up to more difficult.
Whether or not anything of this sort finds its way into the playtest and/or Core Rulebook of Nouveau Pathfinder, we have no current information at the moment.
As you noted up-thread there are vast swaths of Golarion, let alone the other planets in its star system or across the myriad infinite Planes of existence yet to be explored. Who's to state definitively that dragon-men don't exist?
No, no, changing type from dragon to humanoid is definitely not what I wouldn't do - it's trivial, doesn't really change anything, by all means. But, although I normally don't see rpg art as canon (because I can do a better job in my head in too many cases -sigh- ), PF's current art is just incredible. So I effectively see it as canon. I would remake Nualia Tobyn almost completely (make her a multiclass cleric/barbarian, say, with lots of madness spells, no armor, a Lamashtu mask, disheveled hair and blood-shot eyes, self-inflicted scars all over her body, a vulture feather cloak, and 2 kukri, one flaming and the other icy) - but I'm looking at more recent APs to get the update on the state of Golarion and jeez Louis, it's just phenomenal... I really love it.
So, when I see the wyvaran and it has a dog-like snout... eh, what am I supposed to say? It's such good art, by the way. But it has a dog-like snout. I'm not sure I want that for Shamash.
As for other planets and planes, heh... as long as they've been described I'll gladly use them and everything they have in my games, but, again, I wouldn't build a new world by myself if possible. Just... not something I feel like doing. New race? Same. I like very well-detailed settings, like Golarion, Eberron, Exalted (one day), Eclipse Phase. And I make it my mission to have my players really *explore the s*!$ out of them*, really experience them as fully as possible. Plopping down a new planet or species or nation just because I need to have a dragon-man, or an aristocrat ice elf... then it begs the question, "And how does this new element interact with what's next to it? And with the rest of the setting?", and I don't wanna start worldbuilding subcontinents or saying that the sewers of Korvosa are populated by evil clown-people à la Pennywise. Sure, I might want to make a Pennywise-like npc using what I've got, but 1, not a new species, and with good reasons for why it's like that.
Krav Maga- sorry, Kaer Maga ;P would be a better place to plop down a unique being, or a small unique species, too. They're the leftovers from the rest of the Inner Sea after all, the outrageous things you won't have in most campaigns. Same with the Vaults of Orv, similar conceptual space. Who knows what you could find down there?
Still, I prefer to "play by the rules", use the elements already at my disposal. Gives me a feeling of satisfaction, coherence and interconnectedness. It's really a lot of effort for me to deviate from the rules, and I almost always find that if I try I'll only be able to go just a very small distance before I'm no longer motivated.
An already developed, complete setting, like Golarion? I could do this all day ;)