Lifting yourself or others using Mage Hand (Sort of)

[LordOfTheFatties]

If I'm a wizard who weighs less than 5 pounds, let's say I'm either a hamster or on a very effective diet, And I stand on an object who's combined weight, with mine, is still below 5 pounds. Can I lift and move the object I am standing on?

Less silly scenario, say I tied a mouse to a rock with a string. Can I use mage hand to move it around?

Let me be more specific: Say I'm a Kineticist of level 7. I spend 1 point of burn, and can now lift 7000 pounds. Can I lift a stone that people are standing on? If I'm lifting a 7000 pound stone, and someone...Throws a grappling hook and hooks it, does it instantly fall from the sky? Like...I'm just trying to get a feel for what EXACTLY the limit would be?

[Pizza Lord]

Not entirely sure, but it seems like it would be plausible and possible for most of those.

In the case of the guy with the grappling hook, it should still be okay unless he gets enough control of the rock to be considered attending or in control or it. For instance, a kite on a string would probably be considered attended, but a rock held by a grappling hook not so much unless he were able to actually keep a 7,000 pound rock in place.

[Meirril]

Ugh. No, you aren't allowed to overcome the intent of the spell/ability.

Mage hand says 'one unattended object' gets moved. If you put things on top of that object...the spell fails. So you can't move a plate with anything on it even if it all weighs less than 5 lbs. Unless the GM doesn't mind you breaking the wording of the spell.

The Kineticist question is more complex. I'm assuming you are using Telekinetic Haul which is based on Basic Telekinesis which is based on Mage Hand but with lots of modifications? Technically speaking if anyone throws something on to the pile of stuff you are moving, the ability fails since you'd be trying to move the target plus some object not covered by the ability. And creatures definitively aren't covered by the ability so it just fails before you get anywhere. If you're GM is flexable then as long as the grappling hook doesn't exceed the weight of the Telekinetic Haul it should be just fine. But if anything tries to grab it, the whole thing drops. Even a bird landing on the pile could send it plummeting depending on how the GM is feeling.

[JoeElf]

For Mage Hand and unattended, this is from the Merriam-Webster website:
Definition of "unattended" =
"not attended : not watched or looked after : lacking a guard, escort, caretaker, etc. an unattended parking lot a fire left unattended unattended children unattended luggage"

To me, these all involve posession and overseeing things. So, you can Mage Hand inanimate objects like a plate, and the utensils and food on top also go.

However, if you have a creature on the plate, like a mouse, perhaps that isn't really unattended.

Further, if the mouse is intelligent, that makes an even better case that the plate is not unattended.

You should not really expect to be able to stand on a plate and use an at-will, free-all-day cantrip to replicate the effects of Levitate, a 2nd level spell, or Fly, a 3rd level spell.

[ShroudedInLight]

Floating Disc is your friend, especially with the new Magic Trick feat that allows you to surf on it with just 3 ranks of the Fly skill.

Its super fun, and with 6 ranks of fly, mobility, and shield proficiency it provides you with Shield at an Hour Per Level duration which is INSANELY good (and works great on a Travel Domain Cleric or Deep Marshal Magus) who has decided to surf everywhere.

[HedwickTheWorldly]

ShroudedInLight wrote:

Floating Disc is your friend, especially with the new Magic Trick feat that allows you to surf on it with just 3 ranks of the Fly skill.

Its super fun, and with 6 ranks of fly, mobility, and shield proficiency it provides you with Shield at an Hour Per Level duration which is INSANELY good (and works great on a Travel Domain Cleric or Deep Marshal Magus) who has decided to surf everywhere.

Oh this is incredible. I'm 100% definitely using this with my Unsworn Shaman's Arcane Enlightenment hex. Thank you for sharing this gem.

[ShroudedInLight]

I regularly browse the new material that gets released for just this reason, sure there is a lot of chaff but every now and then you find a diamond in the rough.