Ranged Weapon and Ammo Special Ability stacking clarification

[Joseph Stracener]

Hello all,

Ranged weapon special abilities have this written for several, "Projectile weapons with this ability bestow this power upon their ammunition."

Normally, weapons can have only a single copy of a special ability, but this specifically says it gives the special ability's power to the arrow, but does not say it gives the special ability.

What does power mean in that sentence?
Does that mean that a flaming arrow can gain an additional +2 flaming dice from a flaming bow, because the bow bestows the power, but does not bestow the special ability?

[wraithstrike]

It means the arrow has the property that the weapon has. So if the bow has flaming, then the arrow also had flaming.
PF doesnt always use the exact same wording, even when the intent is the same.

The intent here is not get the benefits of the same ability twice so you can't have 2d6 fire damage from this situation.

[Drakkiel]

I don't know for sure where that part is found in the book, however, I would not have an issue allowing a +1 flaming bow to shoot a +1 flaming arrow and receive 2d6 flaming. While the weapon itself cannot have the same special ability, the weapon and ammo can. The rules (as far as I remember, quote them if not so I can be lead to the right path) state that only the enhancement bonus does not stack.

This is actually no different then a +1 flaming bow shooting +1 shocking arrows yes?

Again if this is technically incorrect please let me know the rule associated as I have been out of the game for some time and may be remembering incorrectly

[Meirril]

General stacking rule. If you add the same ability to anything that already has the ability they don't stack unless it specifically says it does.

So if you had a flaming bow and you had flaming arrows the arrow would do the same 1d6 flaming damage as a non-magical arrow launched from that bow because the magic arrow has 'flaming' ability x2 and they don't stack.

On the other hand if you had a flaming bow and a shock arrow the shock arrow would do +1d6 fire and +1d6 lightning damage because they aren't the same.

And very specifically Flame Burst says it doesn't stack with Flaming.

And to round up the rules interpretation, the reason the flaming bow says it gives the ability to its ammunition is because the launched arrow wouldn't do any flaming damage otherwise. If that whole bit wasn't in there then you'd have to hit things with the bow to get flaming damage. Not shoot arrows, I mean swat something with the bow itself!

And technically for classes that have abilities to use the ranged weapon as a melee weapon they do retain their enchantments. So pistol whip with a +1 flaming pistol gets the bonus to hit and the extra +1 +1d6 fire damage.

[Drakkiel]

I remember the rule of typed bonuses not stacking (there are exceptions) and bonuses from the same source not stacking. However other than the numerical bonus from the +1 not stacking I cannot find the rule for or against this.

You mention "General stacking rule" but I only remember it as I said above. If you can find and quote it or know the book its in that would help...my memory of it may just be fried lol

Also I cannot find where Flame burst says it does not stack with flaming.

In the case again is a ranged weapon with one shooting an arrow of the other.

Could you also point out where you found the bit about ranged weapons used as melee retain the enchantments? I know that in certain class abilities or feats it states that it works this way, but I didn't understand it to be general.

Again I just want to say I'm not arguing it, just trying to find where its at.

[Dave Justus]

A weapon either is flaming or it isn't.

If it is, it does an additional 1d6 fire damage. If for some reason (like a flaming bow with flaming arrows) it has the flaming special ability from more than one source, it still just has the flaming special ability.

Flame burst is similar. Flaming burst gives a weapon the flaming ability as part of the flaming burst ability. If you were to make a flaming and flaming burst weapon, it would still just have the flaming property.

[wraithstrike]

Quote:

Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. In addition to the extra fire damage from the flaming ability (see above), a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon's critical multiplier is ×3, add an extra 2d10 points of fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is ×4, add an extra 3d10 points of fire damage.

The flaming weapon function as a flaming weapon, meaning it only does 1d6. This is also referenced by it saying "extra fire damage from the flaming ability".

The flaming burst ability never says it grants an additional 1d6 on top of the flaming damage. What it does is cause more fire damage on a crit. Basically the ability is overpriced.

As for why it doesn't stack: If you have an ability that does X and an ability that acts like it is X that is basically having the ability twice. That is why if you have haste and an ability that acts like haste you dont get +60 to your movement.

The bow would not retain it's bonuses if used in melee. He was using that example to make a point.