When Erasmus puts a marker on one of his Spirit Relatives, does the Spirit Relatives skill and bonus replace Erasmus's skills and bonuses?
For example, putting a maker on Veldira gives Erasmus the following skills:
Wisdom
Divine: Wisdom
Perception: Wisdom
Since Erasmus already has Perception: Wisdom +3, does he lose the +3 part since the marker replaces Perception: Wisdom +3 with Perception: Wisdom?
Also, does he lose the use of any skill feats he may have put in Wisdom as well?
When Erasmus puts a marker on one of his Spirit Relatives, does the Spirit Relatives skill and bonus replace Erasmus's skills and bonuses?
For example, putting a maker on Veldira gives Erasmus the following skills:
Wisdom
Divine: Wisdom
Perception: WisdomSince Erasmus already has Perception: Wisdom +3, does he lose the +3 part since the marker replaces Perception: Wisdom +3 with Perception: Wisdom?
Also, does he lose the use of any skill feats he may have put in Wisdom as well?
From my interpretation:
In PACG, any abilities that give you a skill will give you that skill in addition to ones you have - even if they appear to overlap. Mavaro players, particularly from OA2, can often come across this, as can people using Glamour from Hell's Vengeance 2, which allows one player to gain the skills of another character.
So in Erasmus' case, if he gains the skill "Perception: Wisdom", then that means he may choose to use either "Perception: Wisdom" or "Perception: Wisdom +3". Maybe you want a lower roll (such as against the barrier Collapsing Scaffolding).
However, regardless of whether he's using the +3 or not, he's still using a marked skill in his perception checks (because making a Perception check means you're also making a Wisdom check, which is marked), so he will gain his 1d4+AD# bonus.
(To think of it another way; if Erasmus makes a Perception check then he's allowed to use a card that says "add 1d6 to your wisdom check", so he's clearly using his Wisdom as well, so the bonus from the Cohort will apply)
Skill feats are always in effect, for a similar reason to above. You're still using your core Wisdom skill.
TL;DR: He gets both skills, not one or the other. The bonus applies to both, if only because he's giving a bonus to Wisdom checks. Your normal wisdom skill is always relevant, and thus so are its skill feats.
If he's displayed the Glamour spell next to Alahazra, he would get Divine: Charisma (+X). Would that be given a bonus 1d4+AD# if he had "Divine: Wisdom" marked? I'm thinking 'no', but I'm not certain. He's still making a Divine check with his Divine skill, so it kind of throws me off that he wouldn't get a bonus when he's using a skill (Divine) that is marked off, just not on its own.
Yewstance is correct in that you gain the skills as another option to use, they don't replace your base skills. When making a check, you decide which version (if any) to use.
For Yewstance's question, the answer is that it depends on which version of Divine he chooses to use. When you use a skill, that skill and all skills referenced by that skill are added as traits to the check. So, if you used Divine: Wisdom +3, then it's a Wisdom check. If instead you decided to use Divine: Charisma +3, then it would be a Charisma check and not a Wisdom check.
Yewstance is correct in that you gain the skills as another option to use, they don't replace your base skills. When making a check, you decide which version (if any) to use.
For Yewstance's question, the answer is that it depends on which version of Divine he chooses to use. When you use a skill, that skill and all skills referenced by that skill are added as traits to the check. So, if you used Divine: Wisdom +3, then it's a Wisdom check. If instead you decided to use Divine: Charisma +3, then it would be a Charisma check and not a Wisdom check.
That's what I thought. There's no method of marking Charisma checks, though there are methods of marking Divine: Wisdom on Spirit Relatives. So basically, if he wanted to use Arcane based off his charisma (through an effect that allowed him to do so), he could not get any bonus for doing so.
Still feels weird, in a slightly disconnected sense. "I'm using my Divine skill, so I get a bonus" -> "Actually, you're using the wrong Divine skill this way, so you don't", but the rules are consistent.
Going to necro this for posterity since the topic came up in the PACS discord and I wanted to contradict my earlier post with updated understanding.
The skill you chose from the list, the skill you’re using, and any skill referenced by that skill, are all added as traits to the check.
First up, we see that the rulebook makes a distinction between the skill you're using and any skill referenced by the skill you're using. For sake of example, if you have Melee: Strength and are using that for a check, the skill you are using is Melee and the skill referenced by that skill is Strength.
There are two powers that are interesting here, emphasis mine:
While displayed, you gain each marked skill and add 1d4 plus the scenario's adventure deck number to your checks using marked skills.
☐ Add 1d4 to another character at your location's checks that use any skill marked on the cohort Spirit Relatives.
Both of these powers solely reference the skill you are using. To use the earlier example, if you are using Melee (regardless of if it is Melee: Strength, Melee: Constitution, or just a plain 1d4 Melee because your character lacks the skill entirely), you will get the bonus 1d4 when Nissa is marked (as Nissa provides the Melee skill).
So my updated answer for the 2018 question by Yewstance is that as long as Erasmus is using Divine and has "Divine: Wisdom" as a marked skill on Spirit Relatives, the bonus 1d4 will apply even if he's using "Divine: Charisma" somehow. In both cases (Divine: Wisdom and Divine: Charisma) the skill being used is Divine. The difference only lies with the traits added based on the skill reference, which is irrelevant for the power on Erasmus and Spirit Relatives.
To me, this seems a lot more ambiguous than that? I am not sure that the rules were written to support that degree of parsing. I mean, couldn't you reach the opposite conclusion from drawing inferences from p19?
Skill Feats: These provide a modifier for a particular skill; you add the modifier to any check you attempt using that skill.
Here, the rulebook's wording of "using that skill" has to encompass the skills both before and after the colon. Because obviously a character who makes a Divine: CHA check gets to add their CHA skill feat bonus.
I feel like the actual answer to Erasmus's power is "it's not clear". And to get an understanding of how the card should be played, absent clarity in the rules, perhaps it would be better to try to untangle from another angle, like intention or balance or fun?
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To me, this seems a lot more ambiguous than that? I am not sure that the rules were written to support that degree of parsing. I mean, couldn't you reach the opposite conclusion from drawing inferences from p19?
Skill Feats: These provide a modifier for a particular skill; you add the modifier to any check you attempt using that skill.Here, the rulebook's wording of "using that skill" has to encompass the skills both before and after the colon. Because obviously a character who makes a Divine: CHA check gets to add their CHA skill feat bonus.
I feel like the actual answer to Erasmus's power is "it's not clear". And to get an understanding of how the card should be played, absent clarity in the rules, perhaps it would be better to try to untangle from another angle, like intention or balance or fun?
Covered by the sidebar in p11 of the rulebook which directly defines a modifier for a skill to include skill feats of any skill it references.
I am 100% confident that "using a skill" only refers to the skill you're actually rolling for a check. "Melee: Strength" isn't a skill. Melee is a skill, and Strength is also a skill. If "Melee: Strength" was a skill then we'd add a "Melee: Strength" trait to the check instead of a "Melee" trait and a "Strength" trait. Basically, a lot of things in the game break down if you try to define "Melee: Strength" as separate to "Melee: Dexterity"