You want to do the Third Action round. Alright. I thought we already did the third action round.
I know I have only posted 2 actions. I am planning on doing a couple of court actions (researching Siele Ghoried & building a court library and magical repository), and I hope that Rogr will agree with my proposed deal, and we can then both use the Ceremony action to do the exchange for AR 1.3.
Everybody, would you believe that we have been resolving Domain actions wrong so far?
Go to here,
http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Chapter_five_Rulin g_a_domain_Domain_action_rounds
and scroll down to Resolving Domain Actions .
Domain Actions require a Domain Action Check, not a individual skill check, unlike what we did here: https://paizo.com/campaigns/RuinsOfEmpire/gameplay&page=11#517 , In the first action of the round I had Cale used his adminstrate skill (+4) to rule the province of Northvale up.
and
here: https://paizo.com/campaigns/RuinsOfEmpire/gameplay&page=8#389 Rogr rolled his personal diplomacy skill of +7.
What we should have done was a straight D20 roll, with a modifier for the individual's skill :"Skill modifier: (Full domain actions only) +1 for every 5 ranks that the regent has in the relevant skill. Each domain action is dependent on a specific skill listed in its description. If the regent sacrifices his character action to take a personal hand in the implementation of the domain action, then the domain action receives a bonus proportionate to the regent's skill."
Heh, I propose no takebacks, but start doing things correctly as of the upcoming domain turn.
Third action... So what domain turn are we finishing? I expect that, since the good king Nial ventured to the Tamle, I have an action to do to catch up? And then a third to finish the turn? Would that make sense?
Third action... So what domain turn are we finishing? I expect that, since the good king Nial ventured to the Tamle, I have an action to do to catch up? And then a third to finish the turn? Would that make sense?
Ok, each domain turn has 3 rounds. My actions for the first 2 domain rounds were HERE , note that I only went to 8 out of the 10 steps in the full domain turn order. (see Elton's post HERE ). For me these were AR 1.1 and 1.2.
I think this was your action for round 1 of the turn (AR 1.1), HERE
Your second was adventuring for round 2 (AR 1.2), HERE
My adventure action took me sailing down the coast, meeting you and then chasing around on Tamle (and I proposed that both you and Galwain come, but...). Yours had you and Lady Barad fighting the pirates. You will undoubtedly have done something else in the week or so that I have been running around on Tamle.
One of the challenges to the BR system is the jump between timescales. A domain round is generally a full month, whereas characters act in much smaller time units...
This is why I was proposing we all go to Tamle together, back in our discussions. If my character is going to spend a month, I want to do something more than sail around and investigate some beach houses - and I have plenty of time to do so... But keeping the "party" together keeps everyone on the same timescale.
You definitely have a 3ed domain round (AR 1.3) before we get to the next domain turn. As to whether you have a "previous" domain round (1.2), having not spent enough time adventuring for it to count as an a domain action, that's Elton's call.
PS. As you may note, something that I find helps keep track is the numbering I use, AR *.* it can be expanded down to war moves AR (Domain Turn).(Domain Round, 1 to 3).(War Move 1 to 4), when that level of time-detail is needed.
PPS As to making a huge difference, yeah. I am going to have to read the BR 3.0 rules closely, as they have changed more than I expected from the original 2nd edition stuff... And I think there is lots of stuff hidden in the corners.
Indeed, AR 4.3 (I write 4 'cause this is, for me, the fourth round!) could be dedicated to a Ceremony action. Unless it can be postponed?
Presently, Aglondier has two major issues to deal with: Caelcorwynn and El Hadid. That's a lot! If AR 5.1 is dedicated to Scrying (with GM's approval?) and AR 5.3 is the adventure, it leaves only 5.2 to deal with El Hadid who could prove a handful. I would like to use 4.3 to create diplomatic ties with Liliene Swordwraith and invite her to create a holding in Ilien. Then, I could use 5.2 to create my own (Weapon's) Guild in Ilien...
After that, I would need to contest holding + rule holding in order to, along with Swordwraith, diminish El Hadid's power. And at some point accuse and judge him, when his power proves waning, of course!
Now then, first things first. For the love of God, let's all (GM and all players) agree to use ONE turn/round/warmove numbering convention. So, we are now using IR Ilien Reckoning. The current turn is 4, the round we are about to play is 3. IR 4.3 it is! AR is hereby retired.
Ok, Niall would like to do the ceremony ASAP, as the consolidation of his sources would actually increase his income...
With regards to you having 2 problems, do you really? I think you have one big problem, as if I understand what is going on, the pirates on Caelcorwynn are El-Hadid's catspaws...
I'm also not too clear on what you are proposing as a plan for dealing with El-Hadid. 1) Liliene Swordwraith is dead, that's how Niall inherited...So she is not making any holdings. 2) What holding are you planning on creating? I'm not to sure of the domain structure in Ilien, but BR.net has you hold the province itself, and all the law therein. The source level is zero. The temples are full between the ETN and the IHH. El-Hadid holds all 7 guild levels...so there's no room for anything. If you are proposing a guild to replace EH's, you need a guilder regent...
But, do you need another holding to contest him? From contest holding "Law holdings are also able to contest guild and temple holdings (but not source holdings)." You have the law holding. Another thing you could do would be to contest his trade routes (I assume he has some). From Contest Trade Route: "A regent can neutralize another regent's trade route by contesting his influence. Any law, temple, or guild holding can be used to contest a trade route that terminates or even just passes through its province."
Finally, you could choose to occupy your own province, and crush him with military units. Presumably he doesn't have units to oppose you; he has been stockpiling weapons, but I hope your spy networks would be able to detect actual units... if you need more combat units I might be able to loan you some under the terms of protecting your neutrality under the pact of Ilien.
Crushing his guild will have significant economic impact, and thus will result in disloyalty in the province, unless you can produce evidence of El-Hadid's crimes. Where to get that? Presumably adventuring on Caelcorwynn...
So yeah, I think you need to explain your plan a bit more here...
1) Oups! I meant to write the Guildmaster Siele Ghoried.
2) I believe that I can create a Guild Holding (0), to begin?
3) I could, indeed, contest his Guild holdings with my Law holdings, but then what? With Siele's help, I have in mind to quickly diminish El Hadid's holding in Ilien in order to then more easily arrest him or expulse him.
4) I would like to avoid occupying the province, which strikes me as counterproductive.
Ok, Siele makes more sense. She's going to be a busy lady, because I have plans involving her too - think a national Aerenwe Trading Company...
You will have to do a bunch of diplomacy to get her in though. She will have to spend a lot of RP to build a guild against a competitor who will presumably bid to oppose her, not to mention does she want to make El-Hadid into an enemy... and of course, she has her own problems and actions to deal with.
With regards to guild creation though, are you creating these guilds ("I could use 5.2 to create my own (Weapon's) Guild in Ilien"), is she creating these guilds, or are both of you?
(an alternative strategy would be to get the temples on side with you - and then have them use realm spells to oppose E-H, or simply demagogue to support you so you don't loose loyalty while law holdings/the army deals with E-H).
(You should also be wary about the loyalty of the temples. # of actions obviously counts in domain issues... if he gets one of them on-side, that's more hostile actions to counter.)
In strategic terms, though, I tend to believe Machiavelli: "Never do an enemy a small injury". Thus my advice is different.
Rather than get in a long bun-fight with EH about holdings (especially because you would probably lose such a bun fight - he has a bigger domain because of outside of Ilien assets, and I suspect makes more RP and GB than you), delay any immediate challenge from him by using your law holdings to oppose things he does (in strategically). Make sure you have military superiority, so you can do a last ditch response by court action (ie as a free), using occupy province. Make sure of the loyalty of the temples to be careful about this.
This means he won't move his own personal butt out of Ilien, putting you in a position to go for the throat. Use your actions to get the evidence you need to actually arrest (or killing while resisting arrest, but NOT escaping outside your grasp!) him, and not have your province loyalty go crazy. If you have him in your power, you don't need someone else to build holdings - you can force him to give up his holdings to you or other designate - Ceremonies of Divestiture or Transfer can be coerced...
PS. As strategic advice on a smaller issue, I would suggest putting a garrison on Tamle (particularly if you have a unit that you think E-H might have suborned - taking it away from taking action in the city itself). A hostile base there, like the pirates were working on building, wrecks Ilien's position as a trading metropolis, which would be very bad for you...
For further harassment of EH, raise taxes on the guilds and trade routes (which targets PCE exclusively, effectively - they hold all the guilds and TRs), it's a free court action by decree, and you can ignore up to a 2 levels of loyalty change each turn because you have all the law holdings... It will also make you more money, which I think you need (as, if I read your domain in your avatar right, you are spending more than you make).
WMs by the books get access to all spells on their list and cast as sorcerers, OK. But as established by the last set of battle spells question's, sorcerers need to spend spells learned on battle spells. The core WM list, gives WM's no battle spells...
I'm thinking that you will want WMs able to cast battle spells, but you will need to put some rules in place.
Yes, I do. Probably give them more spells than that which is listed. You want to bring your wms to bear, but they need some battle spells to work with.
Yes, I do. Probably give them more spells than that which is listed. You want to bring your wms to bear, but they need some battle spells to work with.
All their spells are in the Book of War.
It's no so much that I want to bring them to bear on someone right now, it's just I want to understand what my options are for the future...Because 2000 pirates on Caelcorwynn is a lot of pirates, if your standard unit is ~120 ish guys - Aerenwe currently has 7 units = 800-900 troopers. Outnumbered 2 to 1 or better is NOT how I like my fights...
1) The birthright.net page on Aerewe shows a Guild(1) in the province of Shadowgreen, held by a Mourde Alondir. Unfortunately, there is nothing else written about Mourde ... What do I know about him? In particular, does he have any other holdings beyond the one guild. (I assume he's a human). Is he a "clean" guildmaster, like Siele (is presented as, at least), or is he as dirty as the rest of the rats (eg. El Hadid)?
2) I'd like to muster some units of Erebannien rangers. My army needs information... I'm not quite sure what ranger units look like, nor cost. Br.net suggest that I can muster specialized units (ie higher than base level), with a muster cost up to the level of the law holding in the province.
So my first effort at a ranger unit is
Archer, base muster cost : 0.5 GB
Unit ratings : +0 melee, +2 missile, 2 hits, move 1, +2 morale.
Special : Archer units gain a +2 bonus to missile attacks against mounted units.
+ Scout (+1 GB)
Unit modifier: -2 melee, +2 missile, -1 hit, +1 move. Special: Foot units in light or no armor may move freely through any terrain.
Scouts identify hostile units in adjacent provinces
+ lt armor (+0.5 gb)
Unit modifier: defense 12.
+ Veteran (+2 GB)
Unit modifier: +4 melee, +4 missile (if any), +1 hit, +2 move, +4 morale.
This is a total muster cost of 4 gb, and produces a unit :
Erebannien Rangers : +2 Melee, +8 Missile, 2 hits, Move 4 Morale 6, Defense 12. Special : Gain a +2 bonus to missile attacks against mounted units. May move freely through any terrain. Identify hostile units in adjacent provinces.
1) The birthright.net page on Aerewe shows a Guild(1) in the province of Shadowgreen, held by a Mourde Alondir. Unfortunately, there is nothing else written about Mourde ... What do I know about him? In particular, does he have any other holdings beyond the one guild. (I assume he's a human). Is he a "clean" guildmaster, like Siele (is presented as, at least), or is he as dirty as the rest of the rats (eg. El Hadid)?
Siele is loyal to you as far a guildmaster goes. She's lawful good, which means she follows the rules of business and your state. As for Mourde Alondir, he runs a guild in Calrie, and looks to the forest for his profit. It could be that the Erebannien might be a good source of sugar maple and he's making maple syrup. He's also new to the game of running a guild (Rogue 1) so he could be easily manipulated by shadier persons in his business. If you like, I could make statistics for him.
Quote:
2) I'd like to muster some units of Erebannien rangers. My army needs information... I'm not quite sure what ranger units look like, nor cost. Br.net suggest that I can muster specialized units (ie higher than base level), with a muster cost up to the level of the law holding in the province.
So my first effort at a ranger unit is
Archer, base muster cost : 0.5 GB
Unit ratings : +0 melee, +2 missile, 2 hits, move 1, +2 morale.
Special : Archer units gain a +2 bonus to missile attacks against mounted units.
+ Scout (+1 GB)
Unit modifier: -2 melee, +2 missile, -1 hit, +1 move. Special: Foot units in light or no armor may move freely through any terrain.
Scouts identify hostile units in adjacent provinces
+ lt armor (+0.5 gb)
Unit modifier: defense 12.
+ Veteran (+2 GB)
Unit modifier: +4 melee, +4 missile (if any), +1 hit, +2 move, +4 morale.
This is a total muster cost of 4 gb, and produces a unit :
Erebannien Rangers : +2 Melee, +8 Missile, 2 hits, Move 4 Morale 6, Defense 12. Special : Gain a +2 bonus to missile attacks against mounted units. May move freely through any terrain. Identify hostile units in adjacent provinces.
Does that work as a muster?
Given that rangers are individualistic types instead of team players, training them as special units (like the U.S.A. Rangers or USN Seals) would be a small problem. Archers can be represented by the fighter class as much as the ranger class. Remember a ranger unit would be small in comparison to your marine unit.
I would say you could muster no more than 100 rangers in a unit. Otherwise your muster works.
1) The birthright.net page on Aerewe shows a Guild(1) in the province of Shadowgreen, held by a Mourde Alondir. Unfortunately, there is nothing else written about Mourde ... What do I know about him? In particular, does he have any other holdings beyond the one guild. (I assume he's a human). Is he a "clean" guildmaster, like Siele (is presented as, at least), or is he as dirty as the rest of the rats (eg. El Hadid)?
Siele is loyal to you as far a guildmaster goes. She's lawful good, which means she follows the rules of business and your state. As for Mourde Alondir, he runs a guild in Calrie, and looks to the forest for his profit. It could be that the Erebannien might be a good source of sugar maple and he's making maple syrup. He's also new to the game of running a guild (Rogue 1) so he could be easily manipulated by shadier persons in his business. If you like, I could make statistics for him.
Quote:
2) I'd like to muster some units of Erebannien rangers. My army needs information... I'm not quite sure what ranger units look like, nor cost. Br.net suggest that I can muster specialized units (ie higher than base level), with a muster cost up to the level of the law holding in the province.
So my first effort at a ranger unit is
Archer, base muster cost : 0.5 GB
Unit ratings : +0 melee, +2 missile, 2 hits, move 1, +2 morale.
Special : Archer units gain a +2 bonus to missile attacks against mounted units.
+ Scout (+1 GB)
Unit modifier: -2 melee, +2 missile, -1 hit, +1 move. Special: Foot units in light or no armor may move freely through any terrain.
Scouts identify hostile units in adjacent provinces
+ lt armor (+0.5 gb)
Unit modifier: defense 12.
+ Veteran (+2 GB)
Unit modifier: +4 melee, +4 missile (if any), +1 hit, +2 move, +4 morale.
This is a total muster cost of 4 gb, and produces a unit :
Given what Niall is planning, you probably want to stat out Mourde... I guess I will raise a small unit of rangers, and have them start training junior rangers - I will need a minimum of 3 solid scout units (provinces of Calrie, Dhoenel and Westmarch) ... and maybe more if the scout ability to see units in neighboring provinces applies to naval zones as well...
Ok, for Elton's approval, Siele Ghoried in PF1 rules. Note that I have not filled out a bunch of things that are basically combat stats; I don't expect that they will be needed.
Siele Ghoried:
Siele Ghoried
Unchained Rogue 5,
Lawful Good
Init +4
Speed 30 ft
Defense
AC *** Touch *** Flatfooted ***
HP : (8+4d8+5 Con+5 FCB)
Fort +2 (+1+1 Con)
Ref +8 (+4 +4 Dex)
Will +1 (+1)
CMD : 13
Offense
Melee : ***
Ranged: ***
BAB : +3
CMB : +***
Race : Anuirean (Human) (Favored class rogue)
Female, 5’6”, 131 lbs
33 Years Old,
Languages Anuirean, Rjuven, Low Brecht
Class Abilities : Sneak Attack (+3d6), Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense (+1), Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talents (***, ***)
Skills : (ranks, bonus) (8 Class+2 Int /lvl)
Administrate (5,+8), Acrobatics (5,+12), Bluff (2,+6), Climb (1,+4), Diplomacy (5,+11), Disable Device (5, +12). Disguise (1,+5), Escape Artist (1, +10), Stealth (5, +13), intimidate(2,+8), K Ghoried (2, +7), Lead (1,+5), Perception (5, +10), Sense Motive(2,+5), Swim (1,+4), UMD (2,+6), Survival (1,+1), C Trapmaking (2,+7),P Dance(1,+5), Sleight of Hand (1, +8)
Background Skills (2/lvl)
Linguistics (5, +10), P Merchant (5, +8)
Traits & Drawbacks
***, Blooded Scion of Reynir
Feats
Persuasive (1st), Alertness (3ed), Stealthy (5th),
Intimidate, Diplomacy, Stealth, Perception, Sense motive, Escape Artist
Equipment,
***
Bloodline
Minor bloodline of Reynr
Bloodline Score 15 : Mod -1 , +7HP
Poison Sense (Minor)
Forest Walk (Minor)
Background:
Siele Ghoried is guildmaster of the Spider River Traders, a trading guild founded by her father that has come to control almost all logging and mining operations in northern Roesone. Three years ago, Siele made a masterful move and greatly expanded her influence into Aerenwe. Struggle with el-Hadid and Orthien Tane for control of business in Roesone has become of lower priority to Siele as she is fully focused on consolidating her gains in Aerenwe.
Siele is a good-hearted person who believes that her great wealth should be reinvested into the land. She believes in progress and construction for the good of the people of Roesone, as opposed to progress for profit's sake. Her habit to avoid shady contacts and underhand business has put her at disadvantage in compared to her more ruthless rivals.
Elton, I would like to take Niall/Aerenwe's 3ed domain action as adventure, but obviously that is going to take a little coordination between thee and me...
As a starting point,
http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Caer_Callin
"The castle was probably built over the ruins of an ancient elven fortress and it's quite big even for Anuirean standards. An high tower, The Howling Tower, dominates the castle. Named for the noise it makes when the wind blows through it many whispers ancient elven treasures still lie in its foundations."
I propose that Niall and his bodyguard (and maybe a reliable cleric recruited from the Eastern Temple of Nesrie. Also a rogue if I can think of a way to find one that's reliable... ) spend the time investigating these rumors. Niall can also put his newly purchased Detect Secret Doors spell to use...
Edit: Well, this is overtaken by events, but you can think about this for the future...
I am trying to figure the odds on 2 galleons, 2 caravels, 2 coasters + 2 battle mages vs 3 galleons and 3 coasters. I have a suspicion that sinking knights is easier than fighting them...
Well, Paizo didn't come out with a system for naval warfare for Pathfinder so. . . So we are headed into strange territory. I had rules for handling naval warfare for the d20 system -- two sets infact. But they are in storage and I can't reference them.
I have a set of rules for naval battles with Cities of the Sun, we can use those with little modification.
Well, Paizo didn't come out with a system for naval warfare for Pathfinder so. . . So we are headed into strange territory. I had rules for handling naval warfare for the d20 system -- two sets infact. But they are in storage and I can't reference them.
I have a set of rules for naval battles with Cities of the Sun, we can use those with little modification.
I have Cities of the Sun. Those are war card rules, right? Are these the rules that have been updated to 3.5 on Birthright.net, as Tactical Warfare. There is a naval battle section, 2.4
I can work with that, but I need to review what i'm doing for a bit. A second Q: How would we going to resolve a land battle in Northvale? The war card rules, or the Ultimate Campaign rules?
Ultimate Campaign. The Obscuring Mist realm spell makes it harder to see your enemies -- the goblin irregulars. You're troops will be fighting in a fog.
Not to mention, they will have the same penalty. Calculate your army's offensive bonus for ranged combat at -2. The goblin irregulars have the same penalty, -2.
p.s. I got my copy of Arcane Anthology. This doesn't affect the proto-copy of the Book of War, but I will be applying the rules of Arcane Anthology to new spellbooks you may find.
As a question of my own, guns you say? What do I know of these guns? Do I have any on my own ships? (I didn't think there were guns in the Cerilian setting. )
A. The Anuire, Elves, Brechtur, and Khinasi are all renaissance cultures, so it would make sense that they would have guns.
Ok, your world.
But with that said, I can't recall any guns in any of the BR supplements...
But the issue raises a whole bunch of follow on. What level of guns are available? Siege and Naval weapons only? Field cannon? Hand weapons (pistols/muskets)? Advanced hand weapons (revolvers & rifles)?
I'd actually recommend being very early rennaissance.
If guns are good enough for wheelock pistols and matchlock rifles, knights are gone, and every army on the continent (by the book), is out of date...
If guns are still in the Siege Cannon and Naval unit only stage, we don't have to rewrite all the world's armies and most of the characters... Your call though, you will be the one doing most of the re-writing.
As a question of my own, guns you say? What do I know of these guns? Do I have any on my own ships? (I didn't think there were guns in the Cerilian setting. )
A. The Anuire, Elves, Brechtur, and Khinasi are all renaissance cultures, so it would make sense that they would have guns.
Alright, how about Greek Fire flamethrowers?
Those are in the Birthright canon, Naval Battle Rules of Cerilia, fire throwers, pg 9.
Elton, in the gameplay thread, you mentioned the leadership feat, and I replied:
King Niall Swordwraith wrote:
EltonJ wrote:
Yeah, lets recalculate XP afterwards. OH, are you going to take the Leadership feat?
I thought that that was banned - in general cohorts are pretty broken... and the effect almost gets worse in BR, as the creation of alliances, debts of friendship, and so forth should really be part of the play.
Are you banning leadership as a feat? It's your campaign, and it would be a extremely strong feat choice for my 3ed level feat...
Also, I promised a discussion of the UC mass combat system.
The good points:
1) doesn't need a large map /battle field diagram.
2) the system is quite simple to use, perhaps to simple
Neutral:
3) We may be misusing it. If we look at the sample armies, they are usually talking about ACR 2, 3 or higher. This is because of both unit size and unit composition (you see a lot of XXX 2/3/4 in the unit types). This in turn results in more HP, so you get fights, rather than something dying as soon as it's targeted. Not quite sure to do with this in birthright terms - maybe just give a +2 bonus to ACR, thus making an BR Unit composed of Warrior 1's into a ACR 3 (and thus 16 hp, not 5). This would also help with the battle spell problem (see below)
Bad points:
4) Battle spells as currently used are broken, due to the low HP of the units, they just die...
5) There is not enough differentiation from equipment. Assume 2 units, with matching leadership (same CHA, same warcraft), fighting on a featureless flat plain. Equip one with wooden clubs and no armor (they are stone age savages), Equip the other with halberds and 1/2 plate (Prince Avan's guard). It's a tie in this system. If the primitives pick up stones to throw (giving them missile weapons), they're significantly ahead...
6) Similarly for tactics - you can't do something like ouflanking the enemy...
Not sure where to go from here. We could try the original (2nd ed) war cards system, or the tactical combat system on Birthright.net ( http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=Tactical_warfare )
Similarly, The Spider's offensive into Medoere failed without actually running the combat of combat. https://paizo.com/campaigns/RuinsOfEmpire/gameplay&page=8#376
I hope it's ok for me to move over to the discussion thread instead of mucking up the recruitment thread more. I've been going through the gameplay thread to see what Lady Barad had been up to. I have a few questions:
1. Since she married Daenal and both he and Marlae died, there doesn't seem to be a natural link back to a Roesone. Do we pretend there was another heir or should I come from another family? Maybe I am part of the IHH and am trying to strengthen our power in Roesone by marrying Lady Barad?
2. What turn are we on?
2a. I tried to follow her actions to determine what I needed to adjust from what is in the wiki. It looks like initially she was doing Rule Holding actions on the Guilds but later realized that they should have been on Law. It looks like maybe 2 domain turns were completed.
2b. I don't see anywhere that taxes were collected or expenses paid so I'm having difficulty determining my starting point in regards to my treasury. Should I start with 15 GB from the wiki, assume 2 turns, and the adjustments made during the rounds?
