So, I want to make a mechanick, that rides his own battle drone.
For this purpose I will take the combat drone with:
Feats:
1) Weapon Specialization (Heavy Weapon)
2) Mobility
3) Shoot on the Run
Modes:
1) Saddle
2) Speed
3) Climb
And with weapon mounts I'll take, for example, Screamer, thunderstrike.
My character, rider, will have a pistol.
So... how can i fight?
1) For what checks do I need to take actions or roll survival?
2) Do I need to roll SURVIVAL, or I need to roll something else?
3) How can I shoot from the back of mount, and can I do it while mount takes "shoot on the run" action? For example, readied action to shoot?
4) Are we both the same target, or separate targets? If separate, what if we threatent by one enemy and I want my mount to make "Shoot on the run", who provokes AoO and how many, can I avoid an attack with ride (survival) checks, like in PF?
5) Do I have penalties on attack rolls just for sitting in saddle and shooting while mount is moving?
And all this is assuming that saddle modifications includes extra "strength" to carry the rider, and I don't need to calculate some fictional bulk points of rider.
Thanks!
So, I want to make a mechanick, that rides his own battle drone.
Ok, so on awesome factor alone I'd totally let you do this.
Your drone can normally only take a move or standard action, or you can give it your move action (since you're mounted) and you can both use a standard.
Since you're controlling it in its move action, I would not make you take a separate roll as you would with a normal mount. Because you built your drone and are an expert on controlling it, unless I found stated otherwise I wouldn't have you take a penalty for firing from its back.
If you wanted your mount to move, and then you jump from its back and continue moving, I'd have you make an acrobatics or athletics roll as appropriate.
You'd still be separate targets and since an enemy only has one reaction per round I'd say they'd have to choose between you.
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1) For what checks do I need to take actions or roll survival?
2) Do I need to roll SURVIVAL, or I need to roll something else?
3) How can I shoot from the back of mount, and can I do it while mount takes "shoot on the run" action? For example, readied action to shoot?
4) Are we both the same target, or separate targets? If separate, what if we threatent by one enemy and I want my mount to make "Shoot on the run", who provokes AoO and how many, can I avoid an attack with ride (survival) checks, like in PF?
5) Do I have penalties on attack rolls just for sitting in saddle and shooting while mount is moving?
1) You do not need to use any actions to make survival checks related to directing your mount. You still have to take actions that aren’t survival checks such as mount/dismount.
2)No rolled checks regarding the direct-your-mount stuff.3)readied action to shoot is the only way to shoot at the same time as your drone (and at early levels you’ll need to give it your swift and move action do do this with Shot on the Run).
4)Nothing suggests you are the same creature. You provoke during your movement and ranged attacks. The mount provokes during its movement and ranged attacks. When your mount moves you, your mount provokes (it is the creature taking actions and p.249 suggests AoOs are in response to actions). No rules I’m seeing for avoiding attacks using survival.
5)Not that I see.
1) You do not need to use any actions to make survival checks related to directing your mount. You still have to take actions that aren’t survival checks such as mount/dismount.
Can you explain where this is spelled out in the rules? (for the record, I absolutely think that it should work this way, I just don't think that it does by raw.)
From what I can tell, the Riding Saddle Mod lets you control your mount in combat without making Survival-riding checks. Meaning, you don't actually have to roll survival skill checks every round to successfully tell your mount/drone what to do. I don't see where it removes the actual move action to direct your mount to move (which according to the Survival skill, you still have to use, even if you don't have to roll the skill to control your mount).
Quotes from the SRD, with emphasis added...
Riding Saddle (Ex)
Your drone is equipped with a seat and programming to carry a rider as a combat-trained mount. If you ride your drone, it must be at least your size or larger. To carry another rider, the drone must be at least one size larger than the rider. You can direct your drone mount in battle without attempting Survival checks.
From survival skill.
The most typical actions while riding a creature don’t require checks. As a move action, you can either mount, ride (using the mount’s speed instead of yours), or dismount from a creature.
From drones
Limited AI (Ex) 1st Level
Each round on your turn, after you have acted, your drone can take either a move action or a standard action to attack (your drone doesn’t make a separate initiative roll).
Master Control (Ex) 1st Level
As a move action, you can directly control your drone.
Since the Limited AI and Master Control unit specify that A-The drone goes after you and B-only gets a Move or a Standard and C-only gets both if you spend a move on Master control, it looks to me like if you spend a move to use it's speed, it happens after you spend your action standard and swift (I.E. when your part of your turn is over) and B it only gets to move (not attack) unless you also spent your standard as a move on Master Control.
I don't think this is RAI. I think it's RAI for the Mechanic Master Control class feature's move action to count as the move action to use your mounts move speed instead of your own and for it to happen on your turn. But I've yet to find where this is actually explained to work as intended.
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I think I misspoke. You don’t have to make the check. If an action requires a check, the action happens as if the check succeeded. So no non-action fast dismount.
WOW HOW DID I MISS THE RIDE MOVE ACTION?! (also can you do it as a swift as per “Fight from a Combat Trained Mount”..?
Hmmm. This is pretty weird. The mounted rules are actually even less thorough than PF. I’m not seeing any language that requires the mount to act on your initiative. Is the move action “Ride” basically bonus movement for the mount?
There is a lack of rules overcoming the normal rules for a creature, so a mounted creature still has its own initiative and action and you can give a move action to ride the mount further. Maybe?
In 3.5 (I'm not sure about PF), the Mount got its own set of actions but went on your turn if you were controling it. If you spent a move to use its speed instead of your own, it lost its move action but could still (if 'trained for combat') take its standard to attack with its primary attack or it could spend the whole round moving if that was what you spent your move action directing it to do.
I want to argue that a mounted drone should work like that, but since it doesn't get a full set of actions (with limited AI), it can't. (at least, as far as I can tell)
Now I'm a little bit confused... What actions do I need to use my drone as a mount? I thought it's no actions at all (only for reactions or other things) but...
My opinion is that the only correct answer to that question right now is to ask your DM.
By RAI, I'd argue that if you use your Move for Master Control as normal; that this includes the Move action needed to control your mount and use its speed to move you on your turn, but then it doesn't get a Move action on its turn (only the Standard) and can't full attack. Or you can use no action to control your drone (say, if you wanted to full attack), but your drone can then only do a move or a standard on its turn per limited AI and you can't use its speed to move yourself on your turn in addition to that.
That seems like the fair and balanced way to manage it where it functions just like any other mount would and doesn't give you a bunch of extra actions.
However, if your DM is a stickler for RAW, If you want to use your move action to use its speed instead of your own, right now it looks like it can take no other actions on its turn unless you also spend a move on your turn for Master control (in which case, it can then only move or standard, not both). Meaning, you get fewer actions than you would with a normal mount.
Your DM may totally disagree with either of those interpretations and want to make their own. I just had this argument on the discord and no one there agreed with me, so your DM may disagree as well. Half the boards are probably going to come in and tell you I'm wrong, soon, too. So, the best answer is to ask your DM.
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However, if your DM is a stickler for RAW, If you want to use your move action to use its speed instead of your own, right now it looks like it can take no other actions on its turn unless you also spend a move on your turn for Master control (in which case, it can then only move or standard, not both). Meaning, you get fewer actions than you would with a normal mount.
I’m not seeing anything on the mount creature not getting actions unless you spend a move.
You can spend your own move to move at its speed (which I think would actually have the rider provoke for movement since it’s their action.
I’m not seeing anything on the mount creature not getting actions unless you spend a move.
You can spend your own move to move at its speed (which I think would actually have the rider provoke for movement since it’s their action.
For it to move at its speed while you're riding it, it has to use its move action for the round. That's always been the way mounted combat has worked. If it can move using your move while also taking its own round of actions, you're breaking the action economy. You're also getting into a weird situation where a horse with a rider is somehow faster than a horse without one.
Since Limited AI only has either a move or a standard, the Drone would normally be out of actions on it's turn at that point. It spent its move or standard on movement and its done. Unless you also spent a move action on Master Control to give it an extra move, which it could have used to move and still have a standard to attack. But now, you're out of actions because you spent a move on movement and a standard as a move on Master Control.
I am enjoying the discussion here. Just as an additional resource I thought I'd toss in a link to another thread discussing these rules.
I think that is how it is intended to work.
I don't think that RAW currently reflects this, and it's confusing.
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For it to move at its speed while you're riding it, it has to use its move action for the round. That's always been the way mounted combat has worked. If it can move using your move while also taking its own round of actions, you're breaking the action economy. You're also getting into a weird situation where a horse with a rider is somehow faster than a horse without one.I’m not seeing anything on the mount creature not getting actions unless you spend a move.
You can spend your own move to move at its speed (which I think would actually have the rider provoke for movement since it’s their action.
Yes. I agree that the way the rules are written is weird for action economy. Doesn’t change that the way it’s written is:
As a move action, you can ... ride (using the mount’s speed instead of yours)You can use the mount’s speed instead of yours. It’s your move action, not the mount’s.
Unfortunately, I can't find a section in the CRB or SRD for SF Mounted combat to refute that. The closest I can find is from the PF SRD, which has this:
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
It worked the same way in 3.5, and I'm pretty sure it works that way in 4e and 5e too. I can't imagine that they would have intentionally changed that for this game. I find it more likely that they threw this in as a one off and never thought to go back and add in explicit rules for mounted combat (or they got cut at some point for space).
Unfortunately, I can't find a section in the CRB or SRD for SF Mounted combat to refute that. The closest I can find is from the PF SRD, which has this:
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.It worked the same way in 3.5, and I'm pretty sure it works that way in 4e and 5e too. I can't imagine that they would have intentionally changed that for this game. I find it more likely that they threw this in as a one off and never thought to go back and add in explicit rules for mounted combat (or they got cut at some point for space).
I understand why you try to make a link between the rule of PF and SF. But don't forget they'r not the same game and don't have exactly the same rules. Just to remind you :
SF mount can only take a move or a standard action. Like Companions animals and drone.PF mount can take a full round of action. Like a Companion animal of the Ranger or Paladin's horse.
That why I think that "ShieldLawrence" is wright.