| archaephyrryx |
I recently took a look at the "Earn a Living" section of the Profession skill in Starfinder.
> You can use Profession to earn money. A single check generally represents a week of work, and you earn a number of credits equal to double your Profession skill check result.
Let's take a look at this.
The highest possible skill check modifier for Profession at character level 1 (without purchases) is +11 (1 rank + 3 (skill focus) + 3 class skill bonus + 4 for ability score of 18). This means that you can earn an amount of credits per week equal to 2x(1d20 + 11) = ~44 credits on average, with a minimum of 24 and a maximum of 62.
In comparison, for a level 20 operative who fully invests their skill ranks and ability increases towards a profession stat, and who purchases a Mk 3 personal upgrade for that stat, the best you can get for skill check modifier is +38 (20 rank + 6 operative edge + 3 class skill bonus + 6 for pre-upgrade ability score of 22 + 3 for +6 from personal upgrade), which only means that you earn 2x(1d20 + 38) = ~96 credits on average, with a minimum of 78 and a maximum of 116.
This basically means that a level 20 professional in a trade earns only twice (or so) as many credits per week as a complete rookie, despite reaching level 20 (which is normally very very hard in in-world terms).
Does anyone else think that this is somewhat odd, and is too low for higher level characters?
| pithica42 |
Since I responded to the one flagged as a double and it'll probably get deleted...
You're missing some bonuses, there. Professional Tools add +4 to the roll and Professional clothing adds +1 to the roll, and both of those are available (and affordable) at level 1. That's an extra 10 credits per week to all of your numbers.
Also, the minimum roll on a profession check should be 10, because there's no reason you can't take 10 on those rolls. Some GM's may not see it that way, of course, but it fits the criteria for taking 10. Of course, that means you're always getting that 'average' roll and don't have a chance a the max, but I can't remember the last time I actually rolled a profession check (or similar) in game. I always just take 10.
I think that you're correct that it's odd that super high level characters earn so little with the check compared to lower level ones. I'm hoping Armory includes some higher level/more expensive tool kits for increasing your profession check more. That being said, this is something an adventurer PC would generally do as side work during downtime. You're basically a 'freelancer' picking up whatever work is available when you have time. I would expect someone working 'full time' at this (like a high level NPC) would earn more than a PC would for the same profession check. Based on the chart in services for 'professional freelancer' they earn bonus*2 per day (not week), so this seems at least on the surface to be true, though, that's still a linear check and not exponential or logarithmic as I'd expect it. But that's purely a guess on my part. If I had to write the rules, I'd probably make it 2n*log(n) for NPC's working 'full time' at their profession.
| Torbyne |
Hmm, what about a theme bonus and a racial +2? That brings a level 1 up to a 19 with the tools and outfit.
Either way, I think the skill represents ad hoc employment. If you signed on for long term, hired for as a manager or specialist,you would earn see more traditional salaries. Probably. But then we aren't really adventuring anymore.
| Dracomicron |
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I work a professional day job in the real world. I'm okay with my sci fi fantasy escapism assuming that my techno-wizard gets most of his income from killing punks that mess with the Starfinder Society, and that the freelance IT tech work he does on the side has only modest returns, no matter how good my wizardry is.
Remember, the rules aren't "World of Starfinder: Day Job Simulator," it's "Starfinder: Have Cool Adventures, Amigos!" I'm sure that Day Job Simulator will sell like gangbusters and be very popular, though...
| pithica42 |
A week of work, assuming you're only modestly decent at level 1 is 2*(10+1+3+2+1+4)=42 Credits/week or 6 Credits/day. That's enough to have an R2E every day and a night in a sleep pod and still have 4 credits left over each day to spend on 4 pints of beer.
...Sounds about right to me, for freelance work.
| Tessian |
To add on to what others have said; if a player has a hard time grasping how their [insert high wage profession here] character is making so little, just remind them that the skill provides them with a net profit, not every cost along the way. A gambler is gonna loose some money before hitting that big score, a courtesan might have to rent a dress for high class function, and a even a pop icon might have to pay off the venue when trying to make an impromptu performance with only a day's notice.
As for high level players making so little, just remind them that just because THEY are rolling in credits and raw talent, doesn't mean the people coming to their shows or paying for those well-cooked meals they make are. Thus, performing for the little folk in small, part-time bursts, isn't going to make a lot.
If a character really wants to put on a show or make a fortune at the holo-poker table, that's where the GM steps in and builds an encounter for them.
| Losobal |
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I always assumed when PCs use profession checks the wonkiness comes in because they're not really doing a conventional work period. Basically they're jumping in as temp work, rustling something up associated with their skills but well below 'adventuring' tier. Super safe but then super low in rewards relatively.
On the other hand, in a narrative sense if they actually got a long term job and became functionally an NPC working for a group/etc, they could have salaries or whatever. I just figured the rules were intentionally weak so even they have 'off time' its not a real replacement for being a PC adventurer.
| Big Lemon |
You're not a full-time wage worker, you're a part-timer.
Even if you were full-time, and accounted for all of the costs and benefits that, as previous posters have suggested, factor into these net gains (be glad we don't have to calculate rent or taxes), it shouldn't get you as much net worth as smuggling contraband through the Azlanti Empire or plundering the ancient technology of lost moon. If it did, why wouldn't PCs just sit and do that?
| Metaphysician |
Basically what people said above. The "earn a living" rules are for adventurers, not for people with actual reliable day jobs. The cook or lawyer or janitor or soldier who works for an organization, and shows up on time eight hours a day, five days a week, fifty weeks a year, earns more per day than the moonlighting freelancer.
Mechanically, there are probably any number of feats and such that do not have writeups in the game, because no adventurer would ever take a feat like "x2 to Earn a Living payout for a given Profession skill". The people who actually do regular jobs *do*, by contrast.
| pithica42 |
I might consider something like that with some characters. Let's see, optimizing for profession (assuming my Profession ability is maxed)...
Take 10 + Ranks 20 + Class Skill 3 + Max Ability 9 + Icon Theme 1 + Operative Edge 6 + Profession Tools 4 + Profession Outfit 1 = 54.
That's 108 base Credits/week 'freelancing'. If there were a feat that let me double that to 216 and I had a profession that I could do 'remotely' so I could take advantage of it during drift travel or whatever, I'd certainly consider it, especially if we're not playing in a campaign where it's always rush rush rush to the next plot point.
That's 3 "good" meals, a private 4 bedroom suite, and a six pack of beer every day, without cutting into my 'bullet' money.
| CeeJay |
I recently took a look at the "Earn a Living" section of the Profession skill in Starfinder.
As has no doubt already been mentioned, it seems designed strictly for off-hours Profession use by adventurers deriving their primary wealth from elsewhere.
One might want to homebrew something if the possibility of adventures actually revolving around, say, staging a rock and roll tour or a speaking engagement is a thing in your campaign. It is in mine -- along with an elaborate mechanic for determining how many Views the characters' reality show, which conceit is the centrepiece of their adventures, garners on a given outing -- and I came up with this crazy bantha-pudu adapted from the old ShadowBeat supplement for 1e Shadowrun and calibrated to Starfinder's Wealth By Level guidelines*. You might find it useful for some ideas.
* Fair warning: I have yet to actually use the money-making part of that rules widget.
| Losobal |
I mean, if we wanted to go further into it, there's no reason that such an advanced society, especially one anchored in Abadar, and already possesses things like nigh-Megacorps, wouldn't have a system to make 'extra' money like we do irl.
Adventurers take their stash of whatever they're willing to put down (Credit wise) into some money market account or something, or something really safe if they want and get a flat annual return. But since the focus of money in SF remains "to buy stuff" as opposed to real life concepts of "retire + good life", how PCs obtain money is wonky compared to how everyone else would to try to live normal lives.
| archaephyrryx |
You're not a full-time wage worker, you're a part-timer.
Even if you were full-time, and accounted for all of the costs and benefits that, as previous posters have suggested, factor into these net gains (be glad we don't have to calculate rent or taxes), it shouldn't get you as much net worth as smuggling contraband through the Azlanti Empire or plundering the ancient technology of lost moon. If it did, why wouldn't PCs just sit and do that?
Aren't those respectively Profession (smuggler) and Profession (archaeologist)?
| Losobal |
Big Lemon wrote:Aren't those respectively Profession (smuggler) and Profession (archaeologist)?You're not a full-time wage worker, you're a part-timer.
Even if you were full-time, and accounted for all of the costs and benefits that, as previous posters have suggested, factor into these net gains (be glad we don't have to calculate rent or taxes), it shouldn't get you as much net worth as smuggling contraband through the Azlanti Empire or plundering the ancient technology of lost moon. If it did, why wouldn't PCs just sit and do that?
Sort of. But using it via Profession as opposed to 'adventure challenge' results in much less returns, because the risks (and consequently the Challenge Rating) are less. In a narrative sense, I'd say using Profession Smuggle reflects a period of time (usually short) that you're move low risk, low return items that happen to be available during that time, vs "I'm taking my ship full of contraband and flying past border patrols, etc". And Profession Archeology as "help out in a museum/id something for a client" than "going to get the Ark from the Nazis"
| Dracomicron |
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Heck, making weekly money with "Profession Smuggler" may just be getting paid to edit the SmugWiki for a week to take out bad advice.
REMEMBER: Don't get too smug when you're smuggling. Smugs get (their graves) dug.
DO: Fly casual.
DON'T: Shoot the radio when the questions get too difficult.