I can't seem to find any rules or forum threads on this scenario that has come up in one of my games.
On the Bad Guys turn, they Ready attack actions for the first PC to come out of an Obscuring Mist. The first player up, says his PC moves out of the mist and uses a wand. I, the GM, stop the PC after they emerge from the mist which has triggered the Readied Attack and resolve the Bad Guys attacks.
The player then asks to use an extraordinary ability that is listed as an Immediate Action in response to and prior to resolution of Bad Guys attacks. I believe he can use the immediate action but not positive.
Thoughts?
Yes he can.
The immediate action does not care if what type of action it is in response to.
Also, technically it is a swift action. An immediate action used on your turn is a swift action. This means that if he used an immediate action last turn he cannot use his swift action now. It aso means that he is not burning his swift action for next turn.
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Pathfinder doesn't have a clearly defined "stack" and the wording on immediate actions isn't consistent. It's going to depend on the wording of the ability. Some clearly happen before resolving an attack roll against you, others can't happen unless an enemy has succeeded on an attack roll against you. Most don't really have any timing guidelines.
Unless it's clearly something that happens "before" an attack roll or "after" an attack roll, I'd let it happen whenever the player wants it to.
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Also, technically it is a swift action. An immediate action used on your turn is a swift action. This means that if he used an immediate action last turn he cannot use his swift action now. It aso means that he is not burning his swift action for next turn.
I am not so sure of that. When the readied action trigger the turn become that of the guy with the readied action, then the turn of the PC resume. If the action is something that trigger as a reply of the readied action, it happen during the Bad Guy turn.
But there is no doubt that the player can use a immediate action as a reaction to the readied action.
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Also, technically it is a swift action. An immediate action used on your turn is a swift action. This means that if he used an immediate action last turn he cannot use his swift action now. It aso means that he is not burning his swift action for next turn.
Not quite right. If you use it on your turn, immediate actions count as the one from that same turn. If you use it BETWEEN the end of your turn and your next turn you don't get one (or a swift) next turn. Huge difference.
You could, for instance, activate an ability on your turn as a swift or immediate action, finish moving and attacking and then react to an attacker's attack with an immediate action (interrupt) ability BETWEEN your turns. This would cost you the swift action/immediate action from your next turn. But you could again use an immediate action directly after your next turn (but not a swift during your turn). You can keep doing this and "effectively" never really lose your immediate action abilities. But your swifts are all going to be used up until you give it a one turn rest.
For instance: A Paladin smites evil (swift) against a foe. Then attacks. Foe is still up, retaliates and knocks him below 0 HP. He can use an immediate action to cast Hero's Defiance, and heal up (hopefully past 0, so they don't go down). The next round they get no swift action (so can't smite another foe). But after they attack, if they are knocked below 0 HP again, as an immediate action can cast Hero's Defiance again to heal up. They can keep doing that until they are out of the spell, win, or wait a turn (because, say, they didn't fall below 0 HP).
Also, technically it is a swift action. An immediate action used on your turn is a swift action. This means that if he used an immediate action last turn he cannot use his swift action now. It aso means that he is not burning his swift action for next turn.Not quite right. If you use it on your turn, immediate actions count as the one from that same turn. If you use it BETWEEN the end of your turn and your next turn you don't get one (or a swift) next turn. Huge difference.
You could, for instance, activate an ability on your turn as a swift or immediate action, finish moving and attacking and then react to an attacker's attack with an immediate action (interrupt) ability BETWEEN your turns. This would cost you the swift action/immediate action from your next turn. But you could again use an immediate action directly after your next turn (but not a swift during your turn). You can keep doing this and "effectively" never really lose your immediate action abilities. But your swifts are all going to be used up until you give it a one turn rest.
For instance: A Paladin smites evil (swift) against a foe. Then attacks. Foe is still up, retaliates and knocks him below 0 HP. He can use an immediate action to cast Hero's Defiance, and heal up (hopefully past 0, so they don't go down). The next round they get no swift action (so can't smite another foe). But after they attack, if they are knocked below 0 HP again, as an immediate action can cast Hero's Defiance again to heal up. They can keep doing that until they are out of the spell, win, or wait a turn (because, say, they didn't fall below 0 HP).
No, I had it exactly right. Straight from the CRB:
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn.Nothing else you posted contradicts anything I said.
Thank you
For instance: A Paladin smites evil (swift) against a foe. Then attacks. Foe is still up, retaliates and knocks him below 0 HP. He can use an immediate action to cast Hero's Defiance, and heal up (hopefully past 0, so they don't go down). The next round they get no swift action (so can't smite another foe). But after they attack, if they are knocked below 0 HP again, as an immediate action can cast Hero's Defiance again to heal up. They can keep doing that until they are out of the spell, win, or wait a turn (because, say, they didn't fall below 0 HP).No, I had it exactly right. Straight from the CRB:
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn.Nothing else you posted contradicts anything I said.
I am with maouse33 on this.
Straight from d20PFSRD:
"Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn." This is what thorin001 is quoting.
This other line about immediate actions is what maouse33 is meaning:
"...if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn..., [then] using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn."
When the foe normally retaliates [with its regular attack later that round {assuming it isn't an AoO on the paladin's turn where Hero's Defiance would use the paladin's swift action that turn}], the paladin's Hero's Defiance [off-turn] is using an immediate action that will eat up next round's swift action for that paladin.
Thorin: reading some of your other posts in this thread, you are correctly referencing the same things. I think you are just assuming the retaliation mentioned in maouse's post is an AoO against the paladin that pops the Hero's Defiance, and so qualifies as a swift action on the paladin's current turn [leaving an immediate action available to the paladin on this turn].
Maouse: I assume you were meaning that the retaliation was just a normal attack on the turn of the paladin's enemy, and not an AoO on the paladin's turn, and so qualifies as an immediate action on the paladin's current turn, eating up next round's swift action [but still leaving an immediate action available to the paladin on that next turn].
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Thorin: reading some of your other posts in this thread, you are correctly referencing the same things. I think you are just assuming the retaliation mentioned in maouse's post is an AoO against the paladin that pops the Hero's Defiance, and so qualifies as a swift action on the paladin's current turn [leaving an immediate action available to the paladin on this turn].
Maouse: I assume you were meaning that the retaliation was just a normal attack on the turn of the paladin's enemy, and not an AoO on the paladin's turn, and so qualifies as an immediate action on the paladin's current turn, eating up next round's swift action [but still leaving an immediate action available to the paladin on that next turn].
Yep. Pretty much. Your turn is over. You used a swift. You can still use the next turn's swift between turns. Just like my example. Thorin is correct in that you can use a swift/immediate during your own turn. But that doesn't eat it up for the next turn (which is where the slight difference is denoted). If you moved, took an AoO, and during your turn used that turn's swift/immediate to retaliate (or whatever), that is still from your same turn, and wouldn't eat next turn's swift/immediate.
This also means that if you used a swift inbetween turns, and moved, took an AoO, you could not "during your turn" use another swift/immediate to retaliate (or whatever). The difference is slight, but does exist in RAW.
Okay, it looks like we are using slightly different language to say the exact same thing.