A long time ago I made a thread asking about Four Wizards for a run through of Rise of the Runelords.
I took a lot of the advice given and made a solid party that did really well.
Now, my group wants to try it again, but this time with Fighters only. All Paizo books allowed.
What would your party make-up look like, given the restriction of fighter class only, no multiclassing? 20 point buy. Team should be capable of surviving both low and high level, and should be able to cover or compensate for all aspects of group dynamics.
The campaign will be Rise of the Runelords, so you may tailor your fighter group towards that AP.
This is Pathfinder on Hard Mode.
*turns on emulator, loads up Final Fantasy, ducks for cover*
Lore warden human with 13+ Int and 10+ cha. Favored class bonus goes to +1 skill point per level. Designated face. Use the alt racial ability for extra skill focuses in face skills. Either sword n board or just a two-hander to make stat requirements easier.
Reach trip/lockdown build for area control.
2 archers to kill all the things and handle dex-based skills.
Everyone takes Iron Will and anything else they can to boost their will saves.
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Sounds like a fun idea! I messed around building a jack of-all-trades fighter on Hero Lab a couple of months ago, so I do have some ideas for options your party might consider.
Archetypes:
Child of Acavna and Amaznen, for some limited prepared arcane spellcasting (and at least you'll get some use from the spellbooks you find)
Lore Warden, already mentioned
Mutation warrior gets mutagens
Opportunist (ratfolk) gets alchemist bombs and interesting uses for alchemical weapons
Titan Fighter would be like a kid in a candy store starting around the middle of the AP
Unbreakable can avoid or shrug off debilitating conditions that you won't have a cleric to remove
Viking gets barbarian rage
Traits:
There are several feats (many in the Advanced Class Guide) that let you emulate abilities from other classes. Here are a few:
Amateur Gunslinger
Amateur Investigator
Amateur Swashbuckler
Barroom Brawler
Believer's Boon
Believer's Hands - lay on hands 1/day
Creature Focus
Eldritch Heritage
Studied Combatant
Consider Combat Vigor and related feats from the Healer's Handbook Player Companion (also look at the equipment and other options - you're going to need it!)
I would also suggest looking at teamwork feats since the party will have combat feats to spare.
Here's my dilettante build at level 12, if you're interested:
Dillaphious “Dill” Ettante
Male half-elf (Varisian) fighter (lore warden) 12 (Pathfinder RPG Adventurer's Guide 144)
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human, orc)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 28, touch 18, flat-footed 24 (+8 armor, +3 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 insight, +2 natural)
hp 101 (12d10+25)
Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +5; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
Weaknesses light sensitivity
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 cold iron longsword +16/+11/+6 (1d8+4/19-20)
Ranged +2 planar darkwood composite longbow +20/+15/+10 (1d8+6/×3)
Special Attacks maneuver training (grapple +3, dirty trick +2, push +1), weapon trainings (bows +2, fighter's tactics)
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 15
Base Atk +12; CMB +15 (+17 dirty trick, +18 grapple, +16 push); CMD 33 (35 vs. dirty trick, 38 vs. disarm, 42 vs. grapple, 38 vs. overrun, 40 vs. push)
Feats Amateur Investigator[ACG], Amateur Swashbuckler[ACG], Believer's Boon[ACG], Burrowing Shot, Combat Expertise, Combat Vigor, Deadly Aim, Dilettante, Eldritch Heritage[UM], Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Precise Strike[APG], Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Survival)
Traits dangerously curious, reckless
Skills Acrobatics +13, Climb +7, Craft (alchemy) +8, Handle Animal +9, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +12, Knowledge (engineering) +10, Knowledge (geography) +10, Knowledge (history) +12, Knowledge (local) +10, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Knowledge (planes) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Linguistics +7, Perception +15, Ride +8, Sense Motive +2, Sleight of Hand +5, Spellcraft +9, Stealth +7, Survival +14, Swim +7, Use Magic Device +18; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, derring-do
Languages Ancient Osiriani, Common, Elven, Orc, Polyglot, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ elf blood, swords secrets (exploit weakness, know thy enemy, maneuver training), touch of rage
Combat Gear adamantine durable arrow (50), cold iron arrows (20), silver blunt arrows[APG] (25), durable arrow (30); Other Gear +4 mithral chain shirt, +1 cold iron longsword, +2 planar darkwood composite longbow (+2 Str), blunt arrows[APG] (20), amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +2 (Str, Dex), dusty rose prism ioun stone, efficient quiver, handy haversack, headband of mental prowess +2 (Int, Cha), ring of protection +3, 9,262 gp, 10 sp
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Special Abilities
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Amateur Investigator (3/day) Your knowledge is more than plain smarts - it's inspired.
Prerequisites: Int 13, 1 rank in at least one Knowledge skill, no levels in a class that has the inspiration class feature.
Benefit: Like an investigator, you have the abil
Amateur Swashbuckler Although you are not a swashbuckler, you have and can use panache.
Believer's Boon Domain (Luck) Granted Powers: You are infused with luck, and your mere presence can spread good fortune.
Bit of Luck (1/day) (Sp) Target takes the higher of 2d20 for a d20 roll.
Burrowing Shot (swift action) Lodged fired projectile into target inflicting -2 on creature's ability/skill checks, saves, & attacks, plus 25% spell failure.
Combat Expertise +/-4 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Vigor (max 4 points/rd) As a standard action, heal 1d6 hp/point spent, then fatigued 1 min.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deadly Aim -4/+8 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Deed: Derring-Do (Ex) Spend 1 panache to add 1d6 when making Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check.
Dilettante You can make untrained Knowledge checks up to DC 15.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Exploit Weakness +4 (Ex) Gain listed bonus to confirmation attack rolls. On crit, ignore 5 DR/hardness for 1 rd.
Fighter's Tactics (Ex) Treat allies as having same Teamwork feats as you, so you can gain benefits.
Know Thy Enemy (+2 to attack and damage +2 to AC, standard action, 6 rounds) (Ex) As a listed action when ID foe with knowledge check, gain bonus to att/dam for duration.
Light Sensitivity (Ex) Dazzled as long as remain in bright light.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Maneuver Training
Orc Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell that deals damage, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Touch of Rage +5 (5/day) (Sp) Gain listed morale bonus to attack, damage, and Will saves for 1 rd.
Weapon Training (Bows) +2 (Ex) +2 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
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Stryx, Eldritch Guardian/Brawler with Shield Brace and a Bardiche, spiked heavy shield, spiked armor. This is crowd control and literally guards the guy with Eldritch powers...
Stryx, Child of Acavna and Amaznen, this will also be one of the archers because his magic is so limited.
Stryx, Lore Warden control specialist with the same setup as the Brawler with Shield Brace and a Bardiche.
Ratfolk, Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist Fighter archery specialist, because his bombs will be so limited.
The idea is to have everyone flying as soon as possible, which is level 7 when the rat chemist gets Wings.
Both the half wizard and half alchemist are archers, so even when they run out of tricks, their roles and positions on the battlefield don't change that much.
Child of Acavna and Amaznen serves as a decent in to arcane casting, and even gets some cantrips for detect magic. VMC magus has incredible synergy, and you can get spell blending to get wizard utility spells. Good stuff.
You can make a really strong tank/healer combo by focusing on a simple build with VMC cavalier (Order of the Stars) combined with Believer's Boon and Hands to get a small amount of condition removal and full paladin LoH dice. Will have to spend feats on extra LoH, but can serve as healer pretty damn well. A half elf that takes tee racial variant that treats you effective caster level one higher gets you wand access for something like lesser restoration and/or CLW.
There's archetypes that give you more skills, Lore Warden is popular, but is limited to int based skills. I'd rather go Tactician or Eldritch Guardian to invest traits and skills into the rogue/ skill monkey role. VMC bard gives bardic knowledge and some support stuff. Otherwise there's the seasoned commander that gets bard stuff, but not enough uses of performance to really provide support. I recommend a sage familiar for access to knowledge checks if not going the bard route.
Then you need a bona fide archer.
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Young Master Marshmallow, the OP said no multiclassing.
I, too, was thinking the Eldritch Guardian should have a diplomatic Sage familiar that could face for the party if needed. Since Stryx have charisma penalties. The rat doesn't get penalized in charisma, but I didn't want to lower his intelligence just to face for the party.
Young Master Marshmallow, the OP said no multiclassing.
I, too, was thinking the Eldritch Guardian should have a diplomatic Sage familiar that could face for the party if needed. Since Stryx have charisma penalties. The rat doesn't get penalized in charisma, but I didn't want to lower his intelligence just to face for the party.
Is VMC off the table then? This is not specified in the OP, and since all your levels are fighter anyway I wouldn't think it disallowed.
It makes the healer less good at healing, and the mage less good at utility, but the roles are still there.
I think the idea is to explore the variations available through the Fighter class and it's archetypes. Finding creative combinations of available archetypes that stack to make useful and diverse characters that could reasonably survive as a complete 4 person party.
I think the idea is to explore the variations available through the Fighter class and it's archetypes. Finding creative combinations of available archetypes that stack to make useful and diverse characters that could reasonably survive as a complete 4 person party.
Right, but VMC enhances that, not detracts from it. At least in the case of VMC magus and VMC cavalier on expanding the spell lists and increasing the effective paladin level for healing.
But it's using stuff not offered by the Fighter class, which detracts from the entire point of this post. I think. I didn't write the original post but I'm pretty sure it's about what the Fighter class and its archetypes have to offer, not about Paladins and/or Magi.
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VMC is an interesting aspect of the game that I didn't consider. Trading out feats for select class features; it's not a true form of multiclassing.
For the purpose of this thread, I'll allow it, but I also want to explore just the fighter class. So we can do both! But for the purpose of the game I'm actually going to play, we're not going to use VMC.
VMC is an interesting aspect of the game that I didn't consider. Trading out feats for select class features; it's not a true form of multiclassing.
For the purpose of this thread, I'll allow it, but I also want to explore just the fighter class. So we can do both! But for the purpose of the game I'm actually going to play, we're not going to use VMC.
The Seasoned Commander really needs more uses per day of bardic performance to really nail the support role, but he does get Tactician, 4+skills per level, and all the party face stuff as far as skills go.
Personally, I see no real difference in the Amateur [whatever] feats and VMC, since in both cases you're trading feats for other classes stuff, so are those also banned in game?
A lot can be gained for broadening utility by going into familiars and improved familiars, some of them even come with spellcasting like Faerie Dragons and Tidepool Dragons.
Defender/Vengeful Hunter archetypes have some good fun between the two. EWP Dueling Sword, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Trick: Stylish Reposte, Dirty Fighting, Improved Disarm... be the face of the party and never turn down a sword fight.