I'm a Dork: I'd like to dissect how old numbers are being cleaned up...but are still similar!


Prerelease Discussion


I'm a dork.

I mean, a HUGE dork.

I also have a tiny background in finance.

One of the things Paizo promised is that we'd be able to run PF1e modules on the fly with PF2e rules. (Can we get that community center for user-made content and conversions, pleeeeaaassee??? :D)

This implies that to an extent, the final stat numbers will be if not the same, similar enough that they work (wizard BAB excepted, but why was that wizard punching someone? WHY??? Inquiring minds want to know!).

I suspect that Paizo is shuffling numbers into better, cleaner boxes to do this.

LET'S DISSECT THIS THING.

Here is my theory #1:

OLD: +5 Sword!

NEW: ...is now things like Skill With Sword (+3) plus Sword Quality (+2).

Anyone want to help? (Aka, "Is anyone as much of a dork as I am? Come on, come on! It's okay! We'll form our own club and there'll be pizza every Thursday!" :D)

Paizo Employee Designer

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Department of Expectation Management: Being able to run on the fly if you have the new version of the monsters does not mean that all the numbers are the same. It does mean that when they aren't the same, we provide you with the tools to quickly determine what the new number should be.


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Doesn't look like it'll be like 3.5->PF; I've run straight-outta-tha-book 3.5 modules for Pathfinder characters by just blanket going CR=EL-1. That's going to be a little rougher I'm sure. That being said, I've written modules myself using "quick conversion" rules about a paragraph in length that smoothly convert PF->5e...as long as we're in the first four, mmmaybe five, levels. Eyeballing the flatter Starfinder-esque math, you can probably rock a "quick conversion" rubric longer for PF->PF2. That's certainly a goal, I'd say. But at best, you'd probably get a NewFinder character holding a Pathfinder +5 sword (+5 attack, +5 damage, overcomes...X resistances), and stuff doesn't break.

I am pretty sure I'm going to hit the Playtest with my group running Hollow's Last Hope, just like my first run of Pathfinder. Should be interesting to see how it goes.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Department of Expectation Management: Being able to run on the fly if you have the new version of the monsters does not mean that all the numbers are the same. It does mean that when they aren't the same, we provide you with the tools to quickly determine what the new number should be.

DAMN! Hit with a fine right out of the box!

But srs, I do appreciate it.

Paizo Employee CEO

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I walked by the conference room today, and Stephen is running his playtest group through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Not sure what he all had to do to make that module work, but just wanted to throw this out there. :)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

One of the things I'm keen to see is one of the more recent adventures (probably part of an AP as there hasn't been a module in a while) where you are having to convert NPCs built from classes that are not going to be part of the 2nd edition core rulebook.

Paizo Employee Designer

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I've been running Shattered Star, which has a fair number of NPCs, and so far so good! (including a magus they already fought and a creature with gunslinger abilities soon) Tonight, the team, who just hit level 10, are going to take on the last dungeon in Book 3.


Lisa Stevens wrote:
I walked by the conference room today, and Stephen is running his playtest group through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Not sure what he all had to do to make that module work, but just wanted to throw this out there. :)

Well that had tons of classic DnD monsters w/ PC levels, and with advanced HD & templates too, so it sounds like a great testing ground.

Not to mention all the traps, strange phenomena, and unusual tactics.
And that first dragon...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
I've been running Shattered Star, which has a fair number of NPCs, and so far so good! (including a magus they already fought and a creature with gunslinger abilities soon) Tonight, the team, who just hit level 10, are going to take on the last dungeon in Book 3.

Awesome!


Lisa Stevens wrote:
I walked by the conference room today, and Stephen is running his playtest group through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Not sure what he all had to do to make that module work, but just wanted to throw this out there. :)

Damn you, Lisa Stevens, for forging a company in which you can't swing a dead goblin without smacking an employee running an RPG in a random conference room!

*Shakes fist ruefully and goes back to quarterly reports*


AFAIK, if you have new version of monster/item etc you use that. No conversion, no worrying about numbers, eat what you're served. +5 sword(P1E) might have different mechanics than +5 sword(P2E) but they are both level appropriate tools martials can be expected to use for their main job, even if the details work very differently. Assuming same basic CR approach is being used in previous edition and P2E, then you just swap everything and the encounter should still work...ISH. Ultimately you can't expect exact equivalence in fulfilling module dynamic because the game itself will just have different dynamic, by design. If monsters/NPCs are built with certain Feat matching tactic module assumes, you should either get them some way to implement that tactic decently well (could be with Feat swap of P2E monster/NPC) OR else consider adapting tactics to what P2E build offers. Even when the same tactic/ability is technically available in P2E, it may not have quite the same impact, which could be reason to prompt different tactic or other change.

The RTEE anecdote is interesting, and brings up how monster + class levels will work in P2E. Since it sounds like most class abilities will be optional, superfluous overlap with existing monster abilities (e.g. 2 abilities "you can't be tripped") can be avoided by choosing other option, although I suppose when overlap IS possible and synergistic (e.g. 2 extra Knockback reactions) that becomes it's own quandary... Use it (maybe too powerful) or don't (maybe wasting value of class level/CR). Or for non-P2E example, why no Grapple monsters are built with Grapple chain Feats despite formally being able to do so (and very effective).

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