Ok, so I've heard that Pathfinder is getting an upgrade after 10 years. Now, I know that Starfinder just started, but are we going to see some of the 2nd edition's rules into the upcoming Starfinder products?
Ok, fine, it's not the same system, but... it is the same system if you take a step back.
My guess is it's more like the other way around.
yeah, they already stated that they used a lot of what they had planned to do in 2.0 in Starfinder so Im guessing it will be a lot more familiar to us than those how arent familiar with Starfinder. That said I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the 2.0 stuff bleed into Starfinder in the form of a Advanced Players guide at some point.
Will you be doing a new edition of Starfinder, too?
We have no plans to revise Starfinder at this time. Many of the rules innovations we debuted in last year's Starfinder Core Rulebook were born as changes to the in-development Pathfinder Second Edition game, so some of the "new" Pathfinder is already baked into the Starfinder system. It's possible that we'll learn things over the course of the Pathfinder Playtest that we're eager to apply to Starfinder, but that's putting the space horse considerably before the space cart.
:p if it is compatible enough than this is how we get full casters.
Exactly what Vexies predicted.
Their spellcasters apparently have 10th level spells.
Now, that's a 'full caster'.
I have to say Im really liking the sound of that 3-actions per turn action economy. The more I read about Pathfinder 2.0 the more I wish some more of that made into Starfinder :)
I have to say Im really liking the sound of that 3-actions per turn action economy. The more I read about Pathfinder 2.0 the more I wish some more of that made into Starfinder :)
Starfinder Unchained?
I hope that the economy system and gear leveling systems from Starfinder is not in the Pathfinder 2.0 system. That in my opinion is the worst part of the Starfinder offerings.
I think people get way to hung up on this particular aspect but I get it. its actually quite a useful thing as a game master. The level just gives you a way to gauge strength and appropriate lvl for the items. Me personally I use them more like Shadowrun basing DCs for locating higher lvl stuff. Price already gates things very well and IM glad for it as it helps you control power creep but I like the players having the option of finding something if they roll / negotiate well enough and have the money. (all of which i control as a GM) so in the end its just a number. The economy / price is likewise illusionary. You control the economy and the players wealth so how much cash flow they have is entirely up to you. Because of this price is largely irrelevant past first lvl.
I hope that the economy system and gear leveling systems from Starfinder is not in the Pathfinder 2.0 system. That in my opinion is the worst part of the Starfinder offerings.I think people get way to hung up on this particular aspect but I get it. its actually quite a useful thing as a game master. The level just gives you a way to gauge strength and appropriate lvl for the items. Me personally I use them more like Shadowrun basing DCs for locating higher lvl stuff. Price already gates things very well and IM glad for it as it helps you control power creep but I like the players having the option of finding something if they roll / negotiate well enough and have the money. (all of which i control as a GM) so in the end its just a number. The economy / price is likewise illusionary. You control the economy and the players wealth so how much cash flow they have is entirely up to you. Because of this price is largely irrelevant past first lvl.
I'm just not a huge fan of having to swap out my entire gear loadout every couple of levels.
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I'm just not a huge fan of having to swap out my entire gear loadout every couple of levels.
Yes I agree with this statement. I would of liked a more upgrading of existing gear with more advanced tech components rather than throwing the old gear into the industrial recycler to get almost nothing from it to put towards more gear.
I'm just not a huge fan of having to swap out my entire gear loadout every couple of levels.Yes I agree with this statement. I would of liked a more upgrading of existing gear with more advanced tech components rather than throwing the old gear into the industrial recycler to get almost nothing from it to put towards more gear.
But isnt that truly just a theater of the mind issue? In pathfider you settled on your weapon of choice for the most part and then "upraded" it with enchants of +this or that but in the end it was gold spent and it might as well have been an entirely different weapon as you still had to spend the cash. Same principle here you can stick with one brand or type of weapon and simply upgrade it to the next model in the line by paying the upgrade cost. In the end its the exact same thing mechanically.
Now in regards to granular gear upgrades in the form of scopes, different ammo types, laser sights and the like im absolutely on board for these things as there just fun common tropes of any gun based game so I say bring them on but as far as making your weapon of choice more powerful your applying the exact same principle (paying some form of money) to buy a better weapon.
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But isnt that truly just a theater of the mind issue? [...]
Now in regards to granular gear upgrades in the form of scopes, different ammo types, laser sights and the like im absolutely on board for these things as there just fun common tropes of any gun based game so I say bring them on but as far as making your weapon of choice more powerful your applying the exact same principle (paying some form of money) to buy a better weapon.
Yes and No.
Having a Game Design background myself, I have to say, that rules and story/feeling really base on each other and are the keystone to make something believable and which is a key factor of a good game.Starfinders item level system (and especially the price structure) behind it feels really artificial and not believable (weapon damage varies by the factor 10, the price varies by the factor 8000 and the hp/stamina by the factor 20). I think I know why they did it, because they wanted to stick to the D&D heritage, but I also think that this wasn't the right call.
Of course you can say "If you don't like it change it", but that would mean I have to invest time to fix a problem the designers should have seen before (from this point of view) and that is nothing people will do likely. And to be clear, fixing this points will take a lot of time to get it balanced.
I really like Starfinder, but I also think that they missed the opportunity to modernize and update the rule-set (and they already had a groundset for it with the "Unchained").
Things I think should have be tackeled before the release:
- HP, Weapon and Wealth scaling
- Ship Combat and general ship play (scavanging, upgrading etc.)
- action economy
I really hope that Paizo will review Starfinder in the future and make some changes in this areas, but unfortunately, after the Pathfinder 2 announcement I highly doubt it.
Regarding the weapon modules (like laser pointer etc.) I'm a little bit torn appart. For one side I would love to see them, so people can modify their gear and tailor it to their character. On the other hand I see the danger of "optimizing/min-max/munchkin" here and I don't really like the idea of the "+1 gear bonus to X" comming back.
Will you be doing a new edition of Starfinder, too?
We have no plans to revise Starfinder at this time. Many of the rules innovations we debuted in last year's Starfinder Core Rulebook were born as changes to the in-development Pathfinder Second Edition game, so some of the "new" Pathfinder is already baked into the Starfinder system. It's possible that we'll learn things over the course of the Pathfinder Playtest that we're eager to apply to Starfinder, but that's putting the space horse considerably before the space cart.
Well, while there won't be a "new edition" for Starfinder, the system just started. I was asking if the 2nd or 3rd rulebook would include any of Pathfinder 2E's new rules. Maybe even some sort of erratas after actual playtest, I dunno.
I mean, not every single detail was ruled in the first rulebook :P
Will you be doing a new edition of Starfinder, too?
We have no plans to revise Starfinder at this time. Many of the rules innovations we debuted in last year's Starfinder Core Rulebook were born as changes to the in-development Pathfinder Second Edition game, so some of the "new" Pathfinder is already baked into the Starfinder system. It's possible that we'll learn things over the course of the Pathfinder Playtest that we're eager to apply to Starfinder, but that's putting the space horse considerably before the space cart.
Well, while there won't be a "new edition" for Starfinder, the system just started. I was asking if the 2nd or 3rd rulebook would include any of Pathfinder 2E's new rules. Maybe even some sort of erratas after actual playtest, I dunno.
I mean, not every single detail was ruled in the first rulebook :P
How about a Starfinder Unchained?
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But isnt that truly just a theater of the mind issue? [...]
Now in regards to granular gear upgrades in the form of scopes, different ammo types, laser sights and the like im absolutely on board for these things as there just fun common tropes of any gun based game so I say bring them on but as far as making your weapon of choice more powerful your applying the exact same principle (paying some form of money) to buy a better weapon.
Yes and No.
Having a Game Design background myself, I have to say, that rules and story/feeling really base on each other and are the keystone to make something believable and which is a key factor of a good game.Starfinders item level system (and especially the price structure) behind it feels really artificial and not believable (weapon damage varies by the factor 10, the price varies by the factor 8000 and the hp/stamina by the factor 20). I think I know why they did it, because they wanted to stick to the D&D heritage, but I also think that this wasn't the right call.
I really like Starfinder, but I also think that they missed the opportunity to modernize and update the rule-set (and they already had a groundset for it with the "Unchained").
Things I think should have be tackeled before the release:
- HP, Weapon and Wealth scaling
- Ship Combat and general ship play (scavanging, upgrading etc.)
- action economyRegarding the weapon modules (like laser pointer etc.) I'm a little bit torn appart. For one side I would love to see them, so people can modify...
I guess for me and my group the gear scaling / price was a non issue and hasnt been immersion breaking. It scales very similarly to magic item prices and economy scaling in Pathfinder but I can see what your saying. I can agree and get behind most of your critiques here though. I wouldn't have been opposed to them modernizing it more than it has been and having pushed it even further away from the 3.5 holy grail but im sure Starfinder was a test bed for breaking those conventions.
HP, Weapon and Wealth Scaling I don't have much of a problem with. It was a design choice it works for the most part and we haven't even blinked at it to be honest until you mentioned it. However ship combat, the lack of any guidance to scavenging and what not and action economy I agree could use some love. I would have loved to seen them implement Pathfinder's 2.0 current proposed system but they did revise it some for Starfinder and that did help some of the issues in Pathfinder.
Im sure we will see further tinkering. Starfinder isn't going anywhere and a advanced players guide / unchained I'm sure will make its way to the product line eventually.