UP?
Typically, well, they're pretty stupid. I usually use 'Hulk Speak' or 'Dinobot Speak' as a way to represent their limited intellects and try to avoid words of more than two syllables.
They also can't count. They know 'none', 'one', and 'more than one'.
I try to remember the animal's senses ... dogs are colorblind, so any questions about color are pointless, and they're more likely to tell you what something smelled like than looked like.
Really, talking to animals is barely useful.
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UP?
Typically, well, they're pretty stupid. I usually use 'Hulk Speak' or 'Dinobot Speak' as a way to represent their limited intellects and try to avoid words of more than two syllables.
They also can't count. They know 'none', 'one', and 'more than one'.
I try to remember the animal's senses ... dogs are colorblind, so any questions about color are pointless, and they're more likely to tell you what something smelled like than looked like.
Really, talking to animals is barely useful.
The Pixar movie?
Though in general, you're best asking a corvid, they're wicked smart.
UP?
Typically, well, they're pretty stupid. I usually use 'Hulk Speak' or 'Dinobot Speak' as a way to represent their limited intellects and try to avoid words of more than two syllables.
They also can't count. They know 'none', 'one', and 'more than one'.
I try to remember the animal's senses ... dogs are colorblind, so any questions about color are pointless, and they're more likely to tell you what something smelled like than looked like.
Really, talking to animals is barely useful.
The Pixar movie?
Though in general, you're best asking a corvid, they're wicked smart.
1. I haven't seen it, and
2. With it being in all-caps, I thought it was an abbreviation, like Ultimate ... something ...
SNAKES ARE SENTIENT?
I disagree with that. Talking to animals should be fun and should often yield SOME information. Not "The mystery is solved" levels but enough to advance the plot and be worth the spell. Not always, of course, but often.
Really, talking to animals is barely useful.
That's how I, at least, feel I do it. Maybe less 'fun' in the gits-and-shiggles kind of way and more in the 'watching Moe try to get useful information out of Curly' kind of way, but still.
I've seen a lot of GMs portray a random wolf walking through the woods like Mr. Peabody ("Two orcs, both male, one six-three, one six-six. The taller one had a limp and the shorter one had two gold pieces in his shirt pocket.") which never struck me as right.
I did have a player who had the foresight to cast Fox's Cunning on animals prior to Talk With Animals, which yielded much more complete results.
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I've seen a lot of GMs portray a random wolf walking through the woods like Mr. Peabody ("Two orcs, both male, one six-three, one six-six. The taller one had a limp and the shorter one had two gold pieces in his shirt pocket.") which never struck me as right.
No, that is too much. I'd go with something more like "Two came by. 2 Two legs. Stank. Worse than you"
(There is actually a fair bit of evidence that dogs can count past 2 :-)).
I did have a player who had the foresight to cast Fox's Cunning on animals prior to Talk With Animals, which yielded much more complete results.
Interesting. Not sure that I'd allow that. An argument can be made that the big problem is what the animals would have noticed in the first place. Being smarter now shouldn't change their memories. But it is a nice creative solution. Not sure how I'd handle it.
I disagree with that. Talking to animals should be fun and should often yield SOME information. Not "The mystery is solved" levels but enough to advance the plot and be worth the spell. Not always, of course, but often.
Really, talking to animals is barely useful.That's how I, at least, feel I do it. Maybe less 'fun' in the gits-and-shiggles kind of way and more in the 'watching Moe try to get useful information out of Curly' kind of way, but still.
I've seen a lot of GMs portray a random wolf walking through the woods like Mr. Peabody ("Two orcs, both male, one six-three, one six-six. The taller one had a limp and the shorter one had two gold pieces in his shirt pocket.") which never struck me as right.
In my case, I've gotten grief from my players for playing animals as animals, and NOT giving them 'the mystery is solved' levels.
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Animals may know 'alone', 'small herd', and 'large herd' concepts, but not counts and such; and how they explain a race would depend on how they interact with that race. An unfamiliar race might be "other type of 2-legs", while a familiar one might be "swarm of green hunters" (goblins) or something like that.
Asking about particular objects would likely just confuse an animal. At that point, the oft-used anime line "Is it tasty?" for something unknown actually makes perfect sense. "Butter churn? What's that? Is it tasty?" asked the badger in response?
Also, the translated tone of the animal could be used, too. Badgers are noted for being bad-tempered, so playing that up in its responses can help add a little flavor. Conversely, a rabbit always ready to bolt can give a different feel.
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Being smarter wouldn't change their memories, but they'd be better able to elaborate on them.
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For me, it really depends on the animal's species/breed.
For example, a Guard dog might not be helpful at all because you're not master and therefore not someone that is to be helped.
But a family's dog might be fawning over the person that they just met but is now their best friend forever. Though not as good as master, but still super great.
A cat might simply ignore someone.
Now corvids, you want a creature that will give accurate information and lots of details. Ask a corvid. Parrots work for this too. Both animals are wicked smart and will have noticed lots of details. Of course, they are likely smart enough to make sure they get something out of it as well. Heck Crows in an area with adventurers might have picked up on this and started approaching druids and gnomes to indicate that they can help, as a way to get food. They are an animal that can be said to have a culture.
Parrots are another example of super smart animals that would go beyond "hulk speak" for sure, and be able to remember complex things. Speak with animals would just help them communicate that.
Dolphins and Great apes would also be on the list of super helpful and coherent towards adventurers. (or just try to get "friendly"). Any other Cetation would also be pretty smart.
Other animals just might not be helpful at all.
On the other end of the spectrum.
Don't bother asking a Koala for help. They sleep most of the day and lack the part of the brain needed for thinking (they have a smooth brain after all).
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For me, it really depends on the animal's species/breed.
I agree with you in principle.
But.
This could easily lead to people being upset at the table. People have VERY different ideas of what animals can accomplish, how smart they are, etc etc.
I can easily see a player being upset if they routinely get more information from a dog than a cat.
As an aside, the rules are absolutely unclear in how one can attempt to influence an animal except for wild empathy. They EXPLICITLY point out that neither diplomacy nor Handle Animal work :-(. One thing that the GM has to do is to set clear rules on when an animal would cooperate.
Personally, I allow the character who can speak to the animal to use EITHER Handle Animal or Diplomacy OR Wild empathy in the rare cases I bother to roll. Most of the time as long as the character bribes the animal with food, belly rubs or toys I just assume the animal ends up with a friendly attitude.
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Speaking of corvids, there's something I've been meaning to try.
Go to a public place and give your best Nazghul scream. Then, feed all the crows in the area. Repeat this in different locations, in a gradually expanding range, at all hours. (You might get complaints. Ignore them.) See if you can't teach all the crows where you live that whenever you unleash a unholy scream, they'll be getting food. The hope is that you can attract all the birds in earshot on command.
In the shadowy ally, the moonlight glints off the heavily built man's knife. The d4 doesn't impress you, but that strength modifier could put you in negatives. He's asking for the money you have on hand. You're scared ... but it's nothing to what he'll feel in a moment. You open your mouth and let it hang open as a spine-chilling sound issues forth. The black birds gather, cawing and jostling each other and finding places to perch.
"Do not linger in the dark places of the world," you whisper, hoarsely. "You are not the darkest monster the stalks the night." With a dry chuckle, you walk away.
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Heck Crows in an area with adventurers might have picked up on this and started approaching druids and gnomes to indicate that they can help, as a way to get food. They are an animal that can be said to have a culture.
Parrots are another example of super smart animals that would go beyond "hulk speak" for sure, and be able to remember complex things. Speak with animals would just help them communicate that.
Dolphins and Great apes would also be on the list of super helpful and coherent towards adventurers. (or just try to get "friendly"). Any other Cetation would also be pretty smart.
That could lead to some fun setting details.
Around a gnomish village in the woods, crows could be plentiful, being one of the more clever and opportunistic animals that would adapt well to being 'useful' to a community of people who can speak to animals.
In the jungles to the far south, parrots might similarly congregate around communities with people able to communicate with them (jungle gnomes? A Magaambya-associated village that has a number of druids and arcane-casters able to use druid spells as part of their halcyon magic training?).
Birds already able to speak, to a limited extent, like crows and parrots, might adapt to speak even better than real world crows and parrots, after multiple exposures to speak with animals, creating the false impression that they are even smarter than they are (or that the magic has had some lingering effect on them)...
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Speaking of corvids, there's something I've been meaning to try.
Go to a public place and give your best Nazghul scream. Then, feed all the crows in the area. Repeat this in different locations, in a gradually expanding range, at all hours. (You might get complaints. Ignore them.) See if you can't teach all the crows where you live that whenever you unleash a unholy scream, they'll be getting food. The hope is that you can attract all the birds in earshot on command.
In the shadowy ally, the moonlight glints off the heavily built man's knife. The d4 doesn't impress you, but that strength modifier could put you in negatives. He's asking for the money you have on hand. You're scared ... but it's nothing to what he'll feel in a moment. You open your mouth and let it hang open as a spine-chilling sound issues forth. The black birds gather, cawing and jostling each other and finding places to perch.
"Do not linger in the dark places of the world," you whisper, hoarsely. "You are not the darkest monster the stalks the night." With a dry chuckle, you walk away.
Now I wanna build a crow based vigilante or maybe animal speaker bard who does this.
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Speaking of corvids, there's something I've been meaning to try.
Go to a public place and give your best Nazghul scream. Then, feed all the crows in the area. Repeat this in different locations, in a gradually expanding range, at all hours. (You might get complaints. Ignore them.) See if you can't teach all the crows where you live that whenever you unleash a unholy scream, they'll be getting food. The hope is that you can attract all the birds in earshot on command.
In the shadowy ally, the moonlight glints off the heavily built man's knife. The d4 doesn't impress you, but that strength modifier could put you in negatives. He's asking for the money you have on hand. You're scared ... but it's nothing to what he'll feel in a moment. You open your mouth and let it hang open as a spine-chilling sound issues forth. The black birds gather, cawing and jostling each other and finding places to perch.
"Do not linger in the dark places of the world," you whisper, hoarsely. "You are not the darkest monster the stalks the night." With a dry chuckle, you walk away.
And the Poetic Justice Police arrive, as you use crows to prevent a murder.
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And the Poetic Justice Police arrive, as you use crows to prevent a murder.Speaking of corvids, there's something I've been meaning to try.
Go to a public place and give your best Nazghul scream. Then, feed all the crows in the area. Repeat this in different locations, in a gradually expanding range, at all hours. (You might get complaints. Ignore them.) See if you can't teach all the crows where you live that whenever you unleash a unholy scream, they'll be getting food. The hope is that you can attract all the birds in earshot on command.
In the shadowy ally, the moonlight glints off the heavily built man's knife. The d4 doesn't impress you, but that strength modifier could put you in negatives. He's asking for the money you have on hand. You're scared ... but it's nothing to what he'll feel in a moment. You open your mouth and let it hang open as a spine-chilling sound issues forth. The black birds gather, cawing and jostling each other and finding places to perch.
"Do not linger in the dark places of the world," you whisper, hoarsely. "You are not the darkest monster the stalks the night." With a dry chuckle, you walk away.
Use a hat of disguise and harass local corvids while in the form of someone you want to cause trouble. Crows pick up on trouble pretty quickly and they will tell one another.
Do about, maybe a week of this on your chosen target's favourite haunts and they will be scolded and pestered by crows for quite some time to come.
Speaking of corvids, there's something I've been meaning to try.
Go to a public place and give your best Nazghul scream. Then, feed all the crows in the area. Repeat this in different locations, in a gradually expanding range, at all hours. (You might get complaints. Ignore them.) See if you can't teach all the crows where you live that whenever you unleash a unholy scream, they'll be getting food. The hope is that you can attract all the birds in earshot on command.
In the shadowy ally, the moonlight glints off the heavily built man's knife. The d4 doesn't impress you, but that strength modifier could put you in negatives. He's asking for the money you have on hand. You're scared ... but it's nothing to what he'll feel in a moment. You open your mouth and let it hang open as a spine-chilling sound issues forth. The black birds gather, cawing and jostling each other and finding places to perch.
"Do not linger in the dark places of the world," you whisper, hoarsely. "You are not the darkest monster the stalks the night." With a dry chuckle, you walk away.
I...kind of want to make a character who does this now. (Heck, I kind of want to do this in real life now.)
I can't remember where exactly I came across the research, but we know that corvids are pretty smart and remember who has been friendly or unfriendly to them in the past. Not only does the individual corvid remember, but the others in the area seem to pick up their attitudes, so they seem to be communicate that too.
For animal speak, I've taken a lot of cues from Tamora Pierce's Wild Magic series (the main character can talk to animals). They interpret things in more concrete terms than humans, and focus a lot on immediate concerns. What they consider important information may not be what a human would consider important information.
If animals you speak to magically only know what an animal would know, then how do you run Stone Tell?
I'm not saying that anything written above is wrong exactly, but magic is magic and really there isn't any reason that magic helping a rabbit 'communicate' would be less effective then magic helping a dolphin or a crow communicate. In either case the difference between what they can do with the help of the magic and what they can do with out it is so great as to make their initial differences in capability pretty much a rounding error.
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If animals you speak to magically only know what an animal would know, then how do you run Stone Tell?
I'm not saying that anything written above is wrong exactly, but magic is magic and really there isn't any reason that magic helping a rabbit 'communicate' would be less effective then magic helping a dolphin or a crow communicate. In either case the difference between what they can do with the help of the magic and what they can do with out it is so great as to make their initial differences in capability pretty much a rounding error.
Stone Tell is a level 6 spell that only Druids get access to.
Speak with animals is a level six spell that bards, druids, ranges, and gnomes (and likely others) have access to. It stands to reason that the higher level, harder to access spell will be the better of the two.
Also from the spell description itself
"Wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments."
If animals you speak to magically only know what an animal would know, then how do you run Stone Tell?
I don't, that spell goes bye-bye. So does Speak with Plants. They have no sensory organs, they are literally incapable of knowing anything involving sensory input, which is literally everything.
If animals you speak to magically only know what an animal would know, then how do you run Stone Tell?I don't, that spell goes bye-bye. So does Speak with Plants. They have no sensory organs, they are literally incapable of knowing anything involving sensory input, which is literally everything.
(Though I doubt that's what the spell's designer had in mind....)
