Xenodruid Guided Rebirth limitations.

[Wild Spirit]

I have question regarding the physical limitations of the Xenodruid's Guided Rebirth feature:

Quote:

As long as you have at least 1 Resolve Point remaining, you can spend all your remaining Resolve Points as a full action to surround yourself with an organic cocoon. While enclosed in the cocoon, you are considered helpless. Eight hours later, you emerge having changed your type to animal, humanoid (of any subtype), or your original type, gaining superficial physical characteristics as appropriate. This change does not alter your ability scores, Hit Points, Stamina Points, saving throws, skill points, class skills, or proficiencies. Each time you make this transformation, you are cleansed of all poisons and diseases, are restored to full Hit Points and Stamina Points, and heal all ability damage. You must select a type other than your current type every time you make the transformation. You can use this ability once per day. Once you use this ability, you can’t regain Resolve Points until you rest for 8 hours, even if you have another means to do so.

How exactly are "superficial characteristics" defined?

Does this grant you access to flight and underwater breathing?
Can you transform to a fast animal to move faster?
Can you speak in the animal form?
Do you get to choose biological (not only apparent) sex of your new form? (can you have babies as your new form)
Do you get to choose the age of your new form? (can you use it to live indefinitely)

Let's assume, for the sake of consistency, that the mystic in question is level 18 and doesn't reach level 20.

Please discuss and FAQ.

As a side note, please do not contribute with "up to the GM" etc. Thank you.

[Metaphysician]

'Superficial' means *superficial*. Based on the meaning of the word, and the list of all the mechanical effects this transformation *doesn't* have, the answer to all your questions is an almost certain "No". All the things you mention involve considerably more than superficial effect, and several are outright mechanical bonuses.

So what would be a superficial effect? Stuff that's actually superficial: different hair shape or color, replacing hair with fur or feathers, altered ear or nose structure, different skin color.

[Wild Spirit]

Metaphysician wrote:

'Superficial' means *superficial*. Based on the meaning of the word, and the list of all the mechanical effects this transformation *doesn't* have, the answer to all your questions is an almost certain "No". All the things you mention involve considerably more than superficial effect, and several are outright mechanical bonuses.

So what would be a superficial effect? Stuff that's actually superficial: different hair shape or color, replacing hair with fur or feathers, altered ear or nose structure, different skin color.

I personally thought as much. I just didn't want to accidentally 'gimp' a PC.

[Metaphysician]

Now, there is one point of mechanical ambiguity I'd say this power does have: "How recognizable is your new form?" That is, does Guided Rebirth help with disguising yourself, or do the changes in type and appearance still leave you clearly identifiable?

My inclination is to say "No", mainly because it doesn't mention anything touching upon disguise, and the Serum of Gender Change sets the precedent for their being cosmetic changes that do not make you unrecognizable. My ruling would be the same as for the Serum: no bonus to disguising your appearance, as such, but it does negate any penalties for trying to disguise as the wrong type of being. Otherwise, people who know you in one form will readily identify you in another.

[Wild Spirit]

So, in essence, the 'Guided Rebirth' is just useless fluff.

I have a feeling Starfinder is going to follow in Pathfinder's footsteps with its mantra of magic items > all.

[Metaphysician]

To the contrary, its quite useful. Its use is just primarily one of healing, not "give myself arbitrary buff"-ing. Note the long list of stuff that is just flat out fully restored by doing this, at the low cost of an 8 hour rest. There are also plenty of situations where turning yourself into a different humanoid type would be highly useful.

[Wild Spirit]

What kind of situations do you have in mind? As you said yourself, you do not get any biology-related bonuses.

[Alayern]

While you can't get any mechanical bonuses, the roleplaying/world-interaction possibilities are nifty.

Encounter a hand scanner that only recognizes one species that your party doesn't have? Cocoon time.

Need to infiltrate a xenophobic organization (like Strong Absalom)? Cocoon time.

Are you being pursued, and their only description of you is "a tall, pure blue lashunta?" Cocoon time. Come outta there a somewhat shorter, red akitonian-style human.

While it says what things it does not affect, stats mostly, you are still changing your type and subtype which could straight up wreck party balance. It specifically says "humanoid (of any subtype)" which, uh, opens some interesting possibilities, as there are perks directly associated with subtype.

For a capstone ability, it's pretty dang powerful. You could change your subtype to, say, angel, or aberration, or aquatic. To counter Metaphysician: by changing your type to aquatic, you would, in fact, get water breathing.

Personally, at my table, I would say that the spell could not replicate the android or construct subtypes, simply because they are anathema to nature.

[The Sideromancer]

Alayern wrote:

While you can't get any mechanical bonuses, the roleplaying/world-interaction possibilities are nifty.

Encounter a hand scanner that only recognizes one species that your party doesn't have? Cocoon time.

Need to infiltrate a xenophobic organization (like Strong Absalom)? Cocoon time.

Are you being pursued, and their only description of you is "a tall, pure blue lashunta?" Cocoon time. Come outta there a somewhat shorter, red akitonian-style human.

While it says what things it does not affect, stats mostly, you are still changing your type and subtype which could straight up wreck party balance. It specifically says "humanoid (of any subtype)" which, uh, opens some interesting possibilities, as there are perks directly associated with subtype.

For a capstone ability, it's pretty dang powerful. You could change your subtype to, say, angel, or aberration, or aquatic. To counter Metaphysician: by changing your type to aquatic, you would, in fact, get water breathing.

Personally, at my table, I would say that the spell could not replicate the android or construct subtypes, simply because they are anathema to nature.

I hope you realize that changing subtype to aquatic does not give you amphibious so you lose the ability to breathe air.

If allowing all subtypes, allow all subtypes. Half the reason to have a space opera setting is for the pile of nanites to be exactly as naturally-produced as the human, and if you allow outsider subtypes, they could just take Inevitable and gain constructed anyway (which they wouldn't gain from taking android).

[SirShua]

I don't think outsiders are allowed. Humanoid and outsider are different types with their own grouping of subtypes.

[Nixitur]

SirShua wrote:

I don't think outsiders are allowed. Humanoid and outsider are different types with their own grouping of subtypes.

That's not quite how types and subtypes interact. They are actually entirely independent of each other and subtypes are not limited to specific types. So, Humanoid (Elemental) is actually entirely legal for this ability. Angel, Azata, Demon, and others actually do state that creatures which have this subtype are Outsiders. It doesn't explicitly say that only outsiders are allowed that subtype, but it can be inferred.

Probably more absurd is Humanoid (Incorporeal), though.

The Sideromancer wrote:

I hope you realize that changing subtype to aquatic does not give you amphibious so you lose the ability to breathe air.

The Aquatic subtype does not state that you lose air breathing automatically. It says that if the creature has air breathing, it automatically gains Amphibious, not that a creature with Aquatic, but without Amphibious loses it.

However, I'm a bit skeptical of Aquatic giving you water-breathing (or subtypes granting you any traits) in the first place. Because there are no rules as to what the subtypes actually do. Yes, there's the Aquatic Subtype Graft, but grafting is specifically only for NPCs, not PCs. I wouldn't mix NPC and PC rules, as they are fundamentally different.

[Fuzzypaws]

If the Xenodruid in the campaign I'm running actually survives to 18th level, I'm going to let her get the benefits of the Pathfinder "Alter Self" spell when she changes, as per the effects of the "Thousand Faces" ability this is clearly spiritually descended from. It's a minor extra benefit, but a very versatile one that fleshes out and complements the ability. Otherwise it's just worse than the other Mystic path capstones.

[The Sideromancer]

Fuzzypaws wrote:

If the Xenodruid in the campaign I'm running actually survives to 18th level, I'm going to let her get the benefits of the Pathfinder "Alter Self" spell when she changes, as per the effects of the "Thousand Faces" ability this is clearly spiritually descended from. It's a minor extra benefit, but a very versatile one that fleshes out and complements the ability. Otherwise it's just worse than the other Mystic path capstones.

I wouldn't say the precursor is Thousand Faces:

Nature Oracle capstone wrote:

At 20th level, you have discovered the intrinsic secrets of life itself, granting you incredible control over your own body. Once per day, you can surround yourself with an organic cocoon as a full-round action. While enclosed in the cocoon, you are considered helpless. Eight hours later, you emerge having changed your type to plant, animal, or humanoid, gaining superficial physical characteristics as appropriate (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary). This change does not alter your Hit Dice, hit points, saving throws, skill points, class skills, or proficiencies. Each time the transformation is made, you are cleansed of all poisons or diseases, are restored to full hit points, and heal all ability damage. You must select a new type every time the transformation is made.

[Pax Miles]

Metaphysician wrote:

'Superficial' means *superficial*. Based on the meaning of the word, and the list of all the mechanical effects this transformation *doesn't* have, the answer to all your questions is an almost certain "No". All the things you mention involve considerably more than superficial effect, and several are outright mechanical bonuses.

So what would be a superficial effect? Stuff that's actually superficial: different hair shape or color, replacing hair with fur or feathers, altered ear or nose structure, different skin color.

"Superficial" could certainly include mechanical benefits, but only that relating to the exterior of the creature, or otherwise obvious nature. For example, growing claws would be a superficial addition. Even altering the character's speed by changing to a faster creature, would be a superficial change. [url]http://www.dictionary.com/browse/superficial[/url]

That said, I've no idea if the developers meant it this way. In a more modern application, superficial is often used by humans to describe aspects of other humans which exist only visually, like physical beauty is often considered superficial. In that context, using the word superficial is to imply the lack of value in superficial aspects of a fellow human. But in starfinder, physical beauty would have mechanical benefits, often, so unclear as to their intentions. And when comparing humans and non-humans, it becomes much more murky.

Though my big question would be if their DNA changes to relflect their current form. DNA is certainly not a superficial quality, but at the same time, their superficial characteristics should certainly be reflected in their DNA....

[Metaphysician]

I would rule that your DNA does change, to a point. However, you can't select the details of how your DNA changes ( or perhaps can only achieve some measure of specifics via a supplementary Mysticism check ). It'd be kind of silly to literally gain a different type than you had before, and yet still have the same DNA.

Does mean that biometrics become iffy, but non-DNA biometrics become iffy anyway with this power.

[Xenocrat]

Engaging in a necro to point out that COM’s Guided Reincarnation epiphany, available at level 15 for any Mystic, makes a strong case for treating this 18th level connection power as a full reincarnation/race change when staying humanoid. You can only affect yourself and lose on the rebuild, but get healing and no negative levels.