I've done some pretty extensive digging, but I can't seem to find the answer.
Is there a reason for Red Carriage (from the Pathfinder Tales character deck) having "Owner: Varian" (aside from flavor purposes)? Sure Varian treats the Item card as Basic, but it's still adventure deck 2. By the time he can add AD2 cards to his deck, it won't matter if it's Basic or not.
The same question was sort of asked years ago concerning Arueshalae and her adventure deck 3 Owner cards in this thread, but that thread changed directions and became more about reacquiring banished loot cards. It was never addressed what benefit there was to adding the Basic trait to higher adventure deck cards.
It's mostly flavor, but it could technically come up whenever you need to rebuild your deck. For instance, if you added an item card feat in AD2 you could take the Red Carriage as Varian, rather than a B card.
It's mostly flavor, but it could technically come up whenever you need to rebuild your deck. For instance, if you added an item card feat in AD2 you could take the Red Carriage as Varian, rather than a B card.
Or similarly if you banished or otherwise disposed of an item. Which for items at least (and similarly spells) is reasonably easy to set up deliberately as well - add a potion to your deck in one scenario (reserving the spot), then use it in the next one, voila you're one item short and can loot the appropriate subset of cards in the box.
In both cases of course you need to also make sure nobody in the party acquires any new items or else you'll be stuck with those instead.
It's mostly flavor, but it could technically come up whenever you need to rebuild your deck. For instance, if you added an item card feat in AD2 you could take the Red Carriage as Varian, rather than a B card.
Perhaps I've been misunderstanding the rules, but under the hierarchy on page 7 of the PFSACG guide, aren't you required to go through B's and 1's before you can choose a 2 Basic?
Arrrg.
"The Hierarchy" sidebar on p.7 of the v.4.2 PSACG Guide is missing text it should have -- it should specify that any card that lists your character as the Owner can be treated as a Basic card for your character. (You still can't have a card whose AD# is higher than your tier, so Varian could not build his starting deck with the AD2 card in question, but as soon as he reaches tier 2, he can use it when he fills a gap in his deck.)
The rule is still (confusingly) implicitly included on page 11 in the explanation for an example:
For example, the ranger Agna can add 1 copy of the item Teapot and 1 copy of the ally Biter to her Class Deck. She can select these cards as deck upgrades when appropriate. The ranger Harsk can also add these cards to his Class Deck. (These cards list Harsk as the owner, so he can select them as part of his starting deck; Agna cannot.)
Owner = Basic is in the base rulebook, so may not need repeat there.
It's perhaps also worth note that people can play with these characters and cards outside of Organized Play, as well :)
You still can't have a card whose AD# is higher than your tier, so Varian could not build his starting deck with the AD2 card in question, but as soon as he reaches tier 2, he can use it when he fills a gap in his deck.
In Guild play being Basic doesn't jump the Hierarchy, though. You could only use it to fill a gap if no Bs or 1s were left in your box, or if you were a high enough Tier that you could have picked any AD2 card.
This is different from the main game, where you can pick any Basic card.
Outside of organized play, you could choose it to fill a gap once you started adventure deck 2. You are told to add cards from class decks to the base set box according to their adventure deck number. So it would be in the box once you added deck 2. And at that moment it is basic, so during deck 2 you'd have an easier time using it to fill a gap. For purposes of rebuilding, the owner privilege becomes irrelevant for a deck 2 card after you start deck 4. So, you basically have 2 adventures where you have an easier time filling a gap with it.
For organized play...
The Hierarchy
When this guide tells you to choose cards from your Class Deck box using the Hierarchy, first set aside all of the cards that are already in use as part of your character deck, then choose from your unused cards starting at the top of this list and working your way down until you have chosen enough cards.
1. Use cards that have the set indicator B and the Basic trait.
2. Use cards that have the set indicator B without the Basic trait.
3. Use cards that have the set indicator 1 and the Basic trait.
4. Use cards that have the set indicator 1 without the Basic trait.
5. Use cards that have the set indicator 2 and the Basic trait.
6. Use cards that have the set indicator 2 without the Basic trait.
…and so on, up to the adventure deck number of your current tier.
Now, that only matters if the guide has rules the supersede the rules for rebuilding after the scenario. Which it does.
After upgrading your deck, if your deck doesn’t have enough of certain card types to meet the Cards List requirement on your character card, and your character is Tier 2 or lower, choose the extra cards you need from your Class Deck using the Hierarchy in the sidebar on page 7.
So, a deck 2 card with the Basic trait (including one your character is the owner of) is 5th in the hierarchy, while a deck 2 card without the Basic trait is 6th. So, in guild play, being an owner of a non-B card isn't any advantage unless there are other Basic cards of the same type with the same set indicator. (Because if there were no Basics with that set indicator, you could choose any of them).
But the flavor is nice. Otherwise I would probably wonder why this Red Carriage is a card. Plus it adds just a bit to me wanting to go read the novel.
Ah yes, I forget that Character/Class Decks can be incorporated in the box for non-OP play. I tend to keep the two completely separate, since more times than not, adding those decks to my box just dilute it and make it harder to get the cards we are hoping to get.
But anyhow, I got the answer that I had kinda figured it would be. It's mostly for flavor. And I agree with Hawkmoon. The cards in this deck made me want to go read the novels. I've already purchased one for Kindle to get me started!
I stand corrected. We always played that being the Owner of a card meant you skipped the hierarchy -- effectively, you could have built your starting deck with it, if it wasn't for the AD vs Tier rule. (CD Sajan has AD>1 weapons which he Owns).
I'm feeling very surprised that isn't the intention...
Honestly, I think I might have thought the same. It would perhaps be nice if there was a way to address this. Even just a line that when rebuilding, if your character is listed as the owner of the card you may also treat it as deck B, but still can not have a card in your deck when you start a scenario that is higher than your current tier.
That would let you access these a little sooner.
I think the Hierarchy just exists for the corner case of characters who have more card slots than there are basics in their class deck. It quite possibly should be updated in some fashion.
Even with it, an AD3 Varian could still take the Red Carriage.
I always thought it was a bit odd that the heirarchy addressed higher AD Basics in such a fashion at all. It's so rare to see a Basic as anything but AD0 (I think I may have seen an occasional Blessing of the Gods with a higher adventure deck number), that most of that heirarchy seemed unnecessary. I think a simpler solution would have simply been:
1. Use cards that have the Basic trait with a set indicator less than or equal to your tier.
2. Use cards that have the set indicator B.
3. Use cards that have the set indicator 1.
etc.
Sure that would mean that theoretically they could bypass Basic cards higher than their tier if they reached that step of the heirarchy, but realistically what are the chances of a class/character deck having a Basic card at that heirarchy level AND not having enough cards at the lower levels to satisfy deck construction?
edit: I forgot you can't put cards in your deck higher than your tier, so this situation can't happen anyway. In fact my "with a set indicator less than or equal to your tier" restriction in step 1 is also redundant.
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It's worse than that.
PFSACG Guide 4.2 says this on p.14:
"After successfully completing your fourth (scenario within a tier), you gain 1 card feat. When you gain a card feat, add a card of that type to your deck using the Hierarchy in the sidebar on page 7."
Note the wording; it explicitly tells you to add a card from the Hierarchy when you gain a card feat, bypassing the normal deck rebuilding process.
I didn't realize this was still in the Guide. We'll need to change that.
Can't a simpler solution to be just add to the Hierarchy sidebar "ignore the Hierarchy when your character is Tier 3 or higher; instead, choose appropriate cards that have an Adventure deck number of at least 2 lower than your tier."
Higher level Basics: Cure shows up in AD1 in a few decks.
Adding low-level cards when you get a card feat: This hasn't been an issue for us because you earn Tier rewards before doing deck upgrades. (Page 10 of the Guide 4.2.) That new card is the first one replaced when anything better is available from the pool.
Higher level Basics: Cure shows up in AD1 in a few decks.
Adding low-level cards when you get a card feat: This hasn't been an issue for us because you earn Tier rewards before doing deck upgrades. (Page 10 of the Guide 4.2.) That new card is the first one replaced when anything better is available from the pool.
The issue is if you don't want to replace the card feat's card with a deck upgrade and want to upgrade something else instead. You're saying if you want to replace it even at AD6 you have to hope to get a deck upgrade that's appropriate (that may be very hard in some setups).
Bard deck is the only AD1 Cure. Paladin does have an AD2 Cure.
For something that happens roughly 6 times throughout your character's lifetime, only a couple of which have a major difference in AD numbers, I don't think it's that big a deal. It makes the upswing in multiple upgrade rewards more meaningful, possibly giving you something to do with that extra choice you would have otherwise ignored.
If they want to change it to let you pick Tier-2, that's fine too.
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Higher level Basics: Cure shows up in AD1 in a few decks.
Adding low-level cards when you get a card feat: This hasn't been an issue for us because you earn Tier rewards before doing deck upgrades. (Page 10 of the Guide 4.2.) That new card is the first one replaced when anything better is available from the pool.
Isn't the spell Confusion in the Monk deck at AD6, with the Basic trait?
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For something that happens roughly 6 times throughout your character's lifetime.
Considering you only play 30 scenarios that would be 20% of the time. In addition any time you gain a card feat as a reward outside the tier system it would happen again. SO that would put the range 20 to 27% of the time.
Truthfully I have less issue with this than the number of deck upgrades allowed. It can get hard to get upgrades, and on the rare case you have the chance for two upgrades you cannot take them. I would prefer if the upgrade system was massaged a bit.
So I'm lazy and just looked at the Oracle and Inquisitor decks, but it appears there is roughly 10 upgrades in each of sets 3, 4, and 5 for these class decks. Only playing 5 scenarios you would only be able to get half of the upgrades for each set. Now this doesn't bother me, as you should have to make choices. The issue is you don't always have upgrades available. We have had whole sets (5 scenarios) where we only got 2 or 3 upgrades for everyone at the table (total, not each). So in that set not everyone even got an upgrade.
So yea, being able to add in Tier-2 can get important to fill holes.
For something that happens roughly 6 times throughout your character's lifetime, only a couple of which have a major difference in AD numbers, I don't think it's that big a deal. It makes the upswing in multiple upgrade rewards more meaningful, possibly giving you something to do with that extra choice you would have otherwise ignored.
If they want to change it to let you pick Tier-2, that's fine too.
It's just super weird and unstreamlined because it works contrary to how banished cards work, in addition to being a detriment.
Guild Guide 4.2, p.10:
"After upgrading your deck, if your deck doesn’t have enough of certain card types to meet the Cards List requirement on your character card, and your character is Tier 2 or lower, choose the extra cards you need from your Class Deck using the Hierarchy in the sidebar on page 7. If your character is Tier 3 or higher, you may instead choose appropriate cards that have an adventure deck number at least 2 lower than your tier."
If that's the case, I would rather the card feat not give you a card and you put a card in to replace it, because that's similar to how it works in box play, and allows you the flexibility to choose an AD-2 card above AD3.