Good, pretty straightforward. Nice and effective.
So with ths archetype I feel like there are 2 or possibly 3 avenues:
Beastkin/Invulnerable rager: Quite the deadly combo. DR is sweet but your AC will be atrocious. You make it worse by picking up reckless abandon.
Beastkin/Savage technologist/Savage Barbarian: Savage technologist raises your AC by 4. Savage archetype gives you further bonuses to naked AC. Pair this with a small or tiny form (AC bonus with unmodified STR). Beast Totem gives you more AC (especially good for forms laking claws like flying creatures with talons). Get a wand of Mage armor and someone to use it (or get a trait for UMD) and you should be quite tanky.
I feel this strategy is the way to go in PFS where you don't get the ability score bonuses from beast shape, thus smaller forms are much better.
A few thoughts on your build:
So eldritch claws seems like a waste of a feat. Once you have a +1 furious AoMF it becomes superfluous.
Otherwise helm of the mamoth lord will save you the fiend totem.
Also whats up with the intimidate schtick? Which CR appropriate opponent is ever gonna survive your full attack?
Also I'd look into more mobile forms. Possibly ones that let you fly.
Looks like the natural armor bonuses from the savage barbarian/Beast totem and Beast shape won't stack :(
Savage barbarian also gets a scaling dodge bonus which would stack... however it's not sizeable enough to make it worthwhile I'm afraid.
Falcon seems like a really good animal choice none the less as it gets two talons and a bite so theoretically at Level 4 you could have 6 Primary natural attack (2 claws, 2 Talons, bite and gore)
This will also work with the dinosaur dude...sans the fly speed.
Also halfling could be cool for the risky striker feat.
There's basically two ways to have good physical defense on a Beastkin Berserker: DR, and rage cycling.
Regarding your rage powers: Disemboweling Tusks and Boar's Charge are undoubtedly strong, but intended for "wereboar-kin and those who associate with them" - it's not guaranteed the GM allows them.
Invulnerable Rager can't take Improved Damage Reduction.
I'd suggest the Elemental Blood (air) line for flight.
The optimal wild shape formms for damage are Deionychus, Dire Tiger, and Allosaurus by the way.
Also halfling could be cool for the risky striker feat.
You'd need to keep selecting small forms, and none of those have pounce. Also, loosing a strength bonus to gain a damage bonus sounds self-contradictory.
So eldritch claws seems like a waste of a feat. Once you have a +1 furious AoMF it becomes superfluous.
Just furious, actually - AoMF doesn't need a +1 to have other magical properties.
I feel this strategy is the way to go in PFS where you don't get the ability score bonuses from beast shape, thus smaller forms are much better.
Huh? Where does it say that?
Couldn't you do something like pick tiger for pounce,charge, then rage cycle into another form such as octopus for a slew of attacks?
Oh yeah, you totally can. It's probably overkill against your first target, but Giant Octopus has plenty of reach, so if you're fighting a group of enemies, you can probably kill them all in two rounds.
12-13 attacks with 2d6 bonus damage is pretty scary, I might add.
You'd need to keep selecting small forms, and none of those have pounce.Quillcat says hi. A halfling beastkin berserker in quillcat form with lesser fiend totem and lesser abyssal blood would be a terror to behold.
Ah, you got me. I admit, my spreadsheet only includes APs up to 96.
Additional Resources for PFS stataes quite clearly that you don't get ability score bonuses from beast shape. To me this seems balanced, but it makes small forms superior.
With Savage Technologist rage actually gives you +4 AC in small form. So with 14 dex and mage armor you are at 20 AC baseline. I feel like this is workable. However Beast Totem is not as good as it would normally be and amulet of natural armor is out of the question. You'd have to look at your AC at level 10 to see if it remains competitve.
The thought of rage cycling hadn't crossed my mind yet but it would be rather awesome, both for defenses and versatility. Also the mental imagery is rather stunning :) Not sure whether or not it's a viable low level strategy though...
Also due to having rage powers that can give you all kinds of nifty powers and most forms of natural attacks (I count claw, bite, gore) this archetype doesn't follow old principles of wild shaping. Also you have to consider that you only get one animal form every 5 levels. So you should pick and choose wisely.
In my mind the natural attacking barbarian is great at dealing damage and is also fairly sturdy (thanks superstition), so I'd mainly like my animal forms to get me to my enemy. This means pounce (level 8) swim, fly and climb speeds are at a premium. Sure some of these abilities can be had via rage powers, but they cost a lot of rage powers and they tend to come online very late.
So as a first animal form the falcon seemed very appealing to me as it flies and has an otherwise unattinable talons. And while there are are birds that have claws in pathfinder, I'm pretty sure you'd have trouble justifiyng this for all the PFS GMs in the world. There's also dire rat that swims and climbs and could use a bit of love from claws and gore.
Also the Lynx is a small pouncer as well, but for pure combat viability the quillct is better due to having a sting.
Sorry I meant Cmapaign Clarifications. It's a specific nerf to the Beastkin Berserker, not to beast shape in general.
Page 21—A beastkin beserker does not adjust her ability scores when she undergoes a feral transformation. When selecting creatures for her savage rapport, the beserker must choose creatures that have statistics, and she can only take the form of a specific animal once she gains the ability to transform into an animal of that size. For example, a beastkin beserker who selects triceratops would be able to take the form of a triceratops at 12th level. She could not take the form of a younger triceratops of varying sizes at lower levels.
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Due to being bored I sorted through the Monster list above to identify creatures sized tiny to huge with interesting (not claw, claw, bite) natural attacks:
Name Size Type Senses Aura Speed Melee
Crocodile Large animal low-light vision; Perception +8 20 ft., swim 30 ft. bite +5 (1d8+4 plus grab) and tail slap +0 (1d12+2)
Ankylosaurus Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +14 30 ft. tail +14 (3d6+12 plus stun)
Deinonychus Medium animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +14 60 ft. 2 talons +5 (1d8+2),bite +5 (1d6+2), foreclaws +0 (1d4+1)
Stegosaurus Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +16 30 ft. tail +16 (4d6+12 plus trip)
Eagle Small animal low-light vision; Perception +10 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average) 2 talons +3 (1d4), bite +3 (1d4)
Electric Eel Small animal low-light vision; Perception +4 5 ft., swim 30 ft. bite +3 (1d6+1) and tail -2 touch (1d6 electricity)
Hawk Tiny animal low-light vision; Perception +14 10 ft., fly 60 ft. (average) 2 talons +5 (1d4-2)
Owl Tiny animal low-light vision; Perception +10 10 ft., fly 60 ft. (average) 2 talons +5 (1d4-2)
Squid Medium animal low-light vision; Perception +7 swim 60 ft., jet 240 ft. bite +4 (1d3+2), tentacles +2 (1d4+1 plus grab)
Giant Squid Huge animal low-light vision; Perception +22 swim 60 ft., jet 260 ft. bite +14 (2d6+7), 2 arms +14 (1d6+7), tentacles +12 (4d6+3/19-20 plus grab)
Quetzalcoatlus Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +13 30 ft., fly 50 ft. (clumsy) bite +13 (2d8+7/x3), 2 wings +8 (1d6+3)
Parasaurolophus Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +13 30 ft. tail slap +8 (2d6+9)
Manta Ray Large animal blindsense 30 ft., low-light vision; Perception +6 swim 60 ft. tail slap +4 (1d6+4)
Stingray Medium animal blindsense 30 ft., low-light vision; Perception +8 swim 40 ft. sting +1 (1d4 plus poison)
Porcupine Tiny animal low-light vision; Perception -1 30 ft. tail slap +2 (1d3)
Giant Porcupine Medium animal low-light vision; Perception +6 40 ft. tail slap +6 (2d6+4)
Swamp Barracuda Medium animal keen scent, low-light vision; Perception +9 10 ft., swim 60 ft. bite +6 (1d6+3), tail slap +1 (1d6+1)
Nothosaur Large animal low-light vision; Perception +11 20 ft., swim 40 ft. bite +10 (1d8+6), tail slap +7 (1d8+3)
Giant Falcon Large animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +13 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average) 2 talons +4 (1d6+3), bite +4 (1d8+3)
Giant Dire Frog Large animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +6 40 ft., swim 40 ft. bite +8 (1d8+6 plus grab) or tongue +8 touch (grab)
Mammoth Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +17 40 ft. gore +19 (2d6+11), slam +19 (1d8+11), 2 stomps +17 (2d6+5)
Oliphant Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +9 40 ft. gore +13 (2d8+13), 2 stamps +13 (2d6+9)
Scythe Horn Large animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +10 40 ft. antlers +11 (2d6+6) or butt +10 (1d8+6)
Small Stingray Small animal low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 100 ft.; Perception +5 swim 30 ft. sting +3 (1d3 plus poison)
Medium Stingray Medium animal low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 100 ft.; Perception +10 swim 30 ft. sting +5 (1d4+3 plus poison)
Large Stingray Large animal low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 100 ft.; Perception +11 swim 30 ft. sting +11 (1d8+6 plus poison), wing +9 (1d6+3)
Mokele-Mbembe Huge animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +15 30 ft., swim 30 ft. bite +17 (2d6+9), tail slap +12 (2d6+4)
Snowy Owl Tiny animal low-light vision; Perception +10 10 ft., fly 60 ft. (average) 2 talons +5 (1d4-2)
Velociraptor Small animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +10 60 ft. bite +6 (1d4+1), 2 talons +6 (1d6+1/19-20)
Platypus Tiny animal electrolocation 30 ft. (while underwater), low-light vision; Perception +1 (+5 while underwater) 10 ft., swim 40 ft. spur +4 (1d3-4 plus poison)
Giraffe Huge animal low-light vision; Perception +8 50 ft. 2 hooves +6 (1d8+5), slam +1 (1d8+2)
Marax Large animal low-light vision, scent; Perception +20 40 ft. bite +20 (2d6+9/19-20), 2 talons +20 (1d8+9), tail barbs +18 (1d6+4 plus poison)
Peacock Small animal low-light vision; Perception -2 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (clumsy) 2 talons +2 (1d3-2)
Nothing really caught my fancy in the small or medium departement but Marax looks pretty awesome for a large form with up to 7 natural attacks.
Also giant dire frog targets touch AC with his tongue. That's oddly appealing...
Love the arsinoitherium and Vital Strike/Furious Finish idea. Too bad that build really doesn't work out before level 6 at the very earliest...
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Due to being bored I sorted through the Monster list above to identify creatures sized tiny to huge with interesting (not claw, claw, bite) natural attacks:
Name Size Type Senses Aura Speed Melee
Peacock Small animal low-light vision; Perception -2 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (clumsy) 2 talons +2 (1d3-2)
I want to play this Berserker.
I want to play this Berserker.Due to being bored I sorted through the Monster list above to identify creatures sized tiny to huge with interesting (not claw, claw, bite) natural attacks:
Name Size Type Senses Aura Speed Melee
Peacock Small animal low-light vision; Perception -2 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (clumsy) 2 talons +2 (1d3-2)
Admittedly I was immedeatly drawn to this for the hilarity and it's actually not even that suboptimal compared to the eagle. And it actually has a better land movement speed.
I will be f%#~ing gorgeous while I murder the everliving f+!$ out of s@*#.
If you don't want to be the songbird of doom this might be quite the handy method...
Not sure whether or not [rage cycling]'s a viable low level strategy though...
It's almost impossible to ragecycle before 8th to 9th level. Cord of Stubborn Resolve is technically affordable at 6th level, but you'd have to really break the piggy bank for that one. Best bet is a GM playing with Automatic Bonus Progression allowing a 11k version at 7th level.
Also the Lynx is a small pouncer as well
Er, there is no official lynx in pathfinder, the one on d20pfsrd is from Tome of Horrors.
Actually, if you want to go even smaller you could always just get pounce the old-fashioned way.
Well, of course it's possible to be a small flying pouncer, but every non-'murican would rather be a flying dinosaur than an eagle!
For the record, I'm operating under the asumption that you can't add claws to an animal that doesn't have any similar anatomy (i.e. eagle or marax).
I shall be a songbird of doom. It'll just be my enemies singing.
No. No matter how sweet it may sound to your ears, the dying enemies gargling the blood from their slashed throats does not count as singing!
Also the Lynx is a small pouncer as wellEr, there is no official lynx in pathfinder, the one on d20pfsrd is from Tome of Horrors.
Dang it... well the demon cat is better anyhow...stinging tail and all...
For the record, I'm operating under the asumption that you can't add claws to an animal that doesn't have any similar anatomy (i.e. eagle or marax).
You are prolly right about the eagle. The marax is described as follows:
Dense, bony growths line the back of this bipedal predator. Between its gnashing, toothy underbite, scythe-like claws, and spiked tail, no part of this beast offers mercy.
Seems like Talons were mixed up with claws but I'd be keen to see a picture before ruling it out categorically...
Says you. Don’t forget the screams either.I shall be a songbird of doom. It'll just be my enemies singing.No. No matter how sweet it may sound to your ears, the dying enemies gargling the blood from their slashed throats does not count as singing!
Screaming only counts as singing if it's part of a metal song. So unless you've got a really badass Bard/Skald in your party...
Marax
It looks sad because it can never reach into the cookie jar...
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Screaming only counts as singing if it's part of a metal song. So unless you've got a really badass Bard/Skald in your party...Says you. Don’t forget the screams either.I shall be a songbird of doom. It'll just be my enemies singing.No. No matter how sweet it may sound to your ears, the dying enemies gargling the blood from their slashed throats does not count as singing!
We just have two completely different tastes in music.
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I apologize... that was innaproriate on my part.
Back to the matter at hand: I think I've found an easy solution to "rage cycle" with this build. Simply use moment of clarity after your attack:
The barbarian does not gain any benefits or take any of the penalties from rage for 1 round. Activating this power is a swift action. This includes the penalty to Armor Class and the restriction on what actions can be performed. This round still counts against her total number of rounds of rage per day. This power can only be used once per rage.
The way I see it becoming an animal is part of your rage...
As this can only be used once per rage you should be human and take heart of fileds and prolly also pick up roused anger.
The barbarian may enter a rage even if fatigued. While raging after using this ability, the barbarian is immune to the fatigued condition. Once this rage ends, the barbarian is exhausted for 10 minutes per round spent raging.
Not sure if there are any easy ways to remove fatigue however (besides heart of the fields)...
The combination of these abilities means you should be able to pop in and out of animal form fairly easily in the fights where low AC will get you killed. It also gives you some cool RP potential where you can fluff it as an odd form of lycanthropy that you find hard to control.
Oh wow, those PFS nerfs to Beastkin Berserker Barbarian are extreme. No extra ability scores, and rather than choosing a creature "type" they are only restricted to specific creatures. Seems a little silly to restrict the ability scores though.
I mean, Bloodragers are just straight up better. Do Bloodragers not gain extra ability scores when they use their various methods of polymorph? Arcane Bloodragers can get Beast Shape IV, Form of the Dragon I and Transformation. Prowlers at the World's End can get Beast Shape IV even earlier.
It seems like this nerf was done specifically to spite the Barbarian, and is another example of why Martials can't have nice things.
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The base Beastkin is restricted to specific creatures as well. And for Arcane blooded Bloodragers that's a 16th level ability so the times it comes up in PFS is probably just a literal handful (there's scenarios above 12th level aren't they?).
Prowler would get it as a PFS capstone ability and are limited to kitty form.
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Admittedly I was immedeatly drawn to this for the hilarity and it's actually not even that suboptimal compared to the eagle. And it actually has a better land movement speed.I want to play this Berserker.Due to being bored I sorted through the Monster list above to identify creatures sized tiny to huge with interesting (not claw, claw, bite) natural attacks:
Name Size Type Senses Aura Speed Melee
Peacock Small animal low-light vision; Perception -2 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (clumsy) 2 talons +2 (1d3-2)Peacocks are jerks.
Back when I was in high school, I saw a group of peacocks kill a calf.
Some jackass had probably got them hooked on veal.
The base Beastkin is restricted to specific creatures as well. And for Arcane blooded Bloodragers that's a 16th level ability so the times it comes up in PFS is probably just a literal handful (there's scenarios above 12th level aren't they?).
Prowler would get it as a PFS capstone ability and are limited to kitty form.
A Mounted Fury Barbarian can grab Amplified Rage to have equivalent STR and greater CON than a Beastkin Berserker Barbarian from Level 1 up till level 12. But hey, level 12 is a captsone or whatever.
As for being restricted to specific creatures, the archetype repeatedly refers to it as a specific "kind" of creature, and also says "chosen type of animal." Now, YMMV, because the examples it gives include both a badger and a triceratops, but there are multiple different types of badgers (including dire badgers) but only one triceratops, which falls under it's own specific kind, "dinosaur."
Being able to transform into any dinosaur is kinda broken, I admit. But having to specify that your savage report is only with King Cobras but not with Emperor Cobras is kinda dumb.
Actually, it's not even broken. It's still nothing compared to a real spellcaster. But Paizo doesn't seem to think that Caster Martial Disparity is a thing, so..yeah.
Back to the matter at hand: I think I've found an easy solution to "rage cycle" with this build. Simply use moment of clarity after your attack:
The 1/rage limitation kills it. Seriously, at that investment, we might as well grab proper rage cycling.
Oh wow, those PFS nerfs to Beastkin Berserker Barbarian are extreme. No extra ability scores, and rather than choosing a creature "type" they are only restricted to specific creatures.
First, the second part doesn't change anything - it's indeed a mere "clarification".
The ability score part is a notable nerf, but the archetype is still pretty strong, if maybe not at the same "lol, outdating the entire Shifter class before it was even printed" level.Back when I was in high school, I saw a group of peacocks kill a calf.
A murder most fowl!
We just have two completely different tastes in music.
What other music uses screams on a regular basis?
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I think taking away the beastkins ability score bonuses was legit, otherwise it's just a stright upgrade to the standard barbarian. I generlly agree with caster martial disparity, but show me a caster that wants to be alone in a room with a beastkin berserker...
Anyways I've been doing some brainstorming and have come up with a rather wicked build that tries to circumvent the beastkin's lack of defenses by debuffing. Specifically the Untamed Rager Archetype from Dirty Tactics Toolbox can be stacked with Beaskin Berserker. It gives you improved and greater dirty trick in place of uncanny doge and imp. uncanny dodge and also gets a scaling intimdte bonus in place of trap sense.
Add in Knockback/Savage Dirty Trick and Cornugon smash with 6 natural attacks and you can leave a foe with the following debuffs in one round while still dealing 50some damage at level 6:
Prone AND Blinded AND Staggered AND Shaken AND Deafend
OR
Prone AND Dazzled AND DAZED AND Shaken AND Blinded
OR
Prone AND Dazzled AND DAZED AND Shaken AND Deafend
The possibilities are nigh endless...Also Dirty Trick gives you something nice to do in the first round of combat before aquiring pounce.
Thanks to size increases, Rage, AoMF and Reckless Abandon you should have a fairly competitive CMB throughout your career. Also STR surge means you can land single combat maneuvers agianst pretty much anyone.
Human Barbarian 10 (Beastkin Berserker/ Untamed Rager)
STR 19 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 8
Alt Race Traits:
Heart of the Fields
Traits:
Death Touched
Bred for War
FCB: Superstiton
1 Rage / Savage Raport: Dechynodronus / Feat: Power Attack / Bonus Feat: Extra Rage Power: Reckless Abandon (Retrained 5PP)
2 Rage Power: Knockback / Improved Dirty Trick
3 Extra Rage Power: Superstition
4 Feral Transformation: Beast Shape 1
5 Savage Raport: Large something / Feat: Extra Rage Power: Elemental Blood I / Greater Dirty Trick
6 Rage Power: Savage Dirty Trick
7 Damage Reduction / Feat: Cornugon Smash
8 Feral Transformation: Beast Shape 2
9 Feat: ???
10 Rage Power: ???
sadly both of these are race traits, so no can do. That said, interesting idea!Traits:
Death Touched
Bred for War
Thanks! Swap Death Touched for Sound of Mind then. Both untamed rager and Savage Dirty Trick get way too little love around here. I will have to run some numbers on CMD but from the looks of it you will have to cope with something like CR+20 on a regular basis. At level 10 your CMB should be something like +31, assuming AoMF enhncement bonus counts for maneuvers.
The tricky part will be to beat opponents FORT save for the secondary condition on Savage Dirty Trick on a regular basis. Against CASTY WEAKLINGS this should be doable, but making T-REXes barf should prove rather difficult. The DC is 10+STR+Half Barb level so at level 10 you are looking at DC 24 or so. Shaken (-2) and Sickened (-2) help a lot here though. So your order of operations on a full attack would look like
1)Primary Trip Attack (Knockdown) - > Prone (-4 AC and Attack)
2) Primary Power Attack ->Intimidte ->Shaken (-2 Sves and Attack)
3) Primary Savage Dirty Trick -> Sickened (-2 saves attack and damge) -> Nauseated
4) Primary Attack for Damage versus debuffed AC
5) Secondary natural attack versus debuffed AC
6) Secondary natural attack versus debuffed AC
Then again among the primary debuffs Blinded is super crippling to martials and Deafened is a hevy hit for casters.
I was also pondering the joys of low level Rage Cycling and came across the Allnight Drug. It combos marvelously with Heart of the Fields. However I'm not sure if it will really work as it states that it eliminates the effects of fatigue for the next 8 hours, it does not however remove the condition. Also while nethys says it's PFS legal it is also listed as a black market good.
I'd really like to make this work somehow so that I can play Shroedinger's Barbarian who is a cat and an armored warrior and a giant Octupus at the same time.
I think taking away the beastkins ability score bonuses was legit, otherwise it's just a stright upgrade to the standard barbarian.
Er, you loose your armor and can't wield weapons - not exactly a straight upgrade!
Average CMD values from my spreadsheet for CR1-20 monsters: 12 15 18 19 22 24 27 28 31 32 35 36 38 40 44 45 46 49 53 55. For the record, average Fort saves are between CR+0 and CR+2. AoMF counts for Trip but not for Dirty Trick according to this blog post.
Both untamed rager and Savage Dirty Trick get way too little love around here.
Indeed, I've never seen either be mentioned. Sounds fun if you want to tone down your damage and play a more supporting role.
What other music uses screams on a regular basis?The soothing kind.
Screams. Soothing. Right, right! *slowly backs away*
Why would you want to wield weapons or get itteratives if you can have 6 primary natural attacks with little effort?
Also if you consider the versatility offered by animal forms the 3 rage powers you loose could not compensate for that
Really the only problem with the beast rager is defense.
Why would you want to wield weapons or get itteratives if you can have 6 primary natural attacks with little effort?
Also if you consider the versatility offered by animal forms the 3 rage powers you loose could not compensate for that
Really the only problem with the beast rager is defense.
Because realistically speaking, that creature will have troubles in the later levels where flight becomes commonplace (and assumed to be possessed), which means you'll have to use an inoptimal flight form, so no "6 primary natural attacks." You might have 3, even assuming Beast Totem shenanigans, but there's no way you'll have 6 and be able to reliably fly.
Compared to other Barbarians who can iterative and fight on numerous fields of battle (AKA flight) consistently and effectively, without having to change their combat style to accommodate their new field of battle, the Beastkin might function better in an optimal environment, but will fall short in environments where "6 primary natural attacks" aren't available, such as flight, underground, or even in water.
Even then, realistically speaking, a Beastkin Berserker will not compare to AM BARBARIAN'S RAGELANCEPOUNCE abilities. A Triple damage initial hit followed up with at least 4 more hits, plus an animal companion of equivalent power, will outdamage any Beastkin Berserker.
...I'd never thought about the potential ethnicity of a child born between two samsarans... I suppose roll a d percentile based on their ethnicities in their past lives makes as much sense as any other method, and would result in the desired person of Shoanti being raised by Samsarans in the middle of the dragon empires and then returning to the Inner Sea, all by first level.