If you don't mind doing a lot of reading, try Rogue Eidolon and j b 200's Guide to the Rogue to start with.
A rogue can get sneak attack by blinding the enemy using dirty trick. You can take a rogue talent to get a free dirty trick attempt on an attack, another talent to get you improved dirty trick with the enemy not being able to remove the blind condition for one turn, and then take greater dirty trick with the combat feat rogue talent at 6.
You can get this working at level 2 to guaranty sneak attacks.
This is the best and easiest way to get sneak attack other than flanking.
Search for dirty trick [url=http://www.archivesofnethys.com/RogueTalents.aspx］here[/url]
I'd say the second ability score array is the better one. Having a high wisdom is important to not dying too.
... Would somebody explain me the "essentials" of feinting, intimidating or any other good option to make reliable the sneak attack?
... Witch option do you like the most and, if possible, why?
Full rules for feinting can be found here, near the bottom of the page.
With two weapon feint you can sneak attack independently of your allies starting at level two. (If you grab the Rogue Talent (Combat Trick)) Much better than waiting until level 13. But it has some problems - the DC is 10+ the enemy's base attack bonus + their wisdom. If you put a rank in bluff every level you'll still fail pretty frequently against boss monsters. And a boss fight is when your damage is most important.
Additionally, it isn't terribly likely to work on non-humanoids, because of the -4 penalty. And it doesn't work at all on mindless creatures.
So, is intimidate better? Sadly, no. The DC is the same- and so are the limitations. But, rather than coming online at level two, it comes online at level 11. Not really acceptable.
What other options do we have to get our sneak attack in? Flanking. When you can flank, do flank. One thing you can try is maxing acrobatics and using it to move through enemy squares without provoking attacks of opportunity. But this means that you are putting your enemies between yourself and your friends- if you're in trouble they'll likely be unable to reach you. If you have a spellcaster in the party (likely) you can ask them to summon monsters on the far side of the other guy. But this means that you are reliant on your teammates, and sometimes they don't pull through.
Dirty trick. The single most powerful combat maneuver in the game. Use it to blind, get quick dirty trick when you can. It'll eat up your actions though, and delay your full attacks. And then ever now and again you'll run into something with higher combat maneuver defense than you have combat maneuver bonus. Actually, you'll run into them all the damn time.
The final way to secure a sneak attack is to attack a grappled opponent. If you have a summoned creature, pet, or friendly fighter or druid animal companion to hold them still while you stab them in the kidneys, you will go far.
Witch option do you like the most and, if possible, why?
I am fond of an "all of the above" method to getting off sneak attacks. (And, since I usually DM, I've built NPCs using all of these methods - except intimidate and shatter defenses.) Rogues are highly dependent on their team- if your friends are reliable and think tactically a rogue can do ridiculous damage- if they aren't, use dirty tricks.
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You can also play a ninja and just use vanish trick when you need, or get vanish through rogue talents (but also requires a ki point)
So ways to get sneak attack:
feint: good bluff check, and see the feats improved feint, two weapon feint, etc.
intimidate: if single classed, you need to be a 9th level rogue so takes a while. That said, there are a bunch of ways to do fear builds, but a rogue isn't the best for any of them really, except maybe the thug archetype.
dirty trick blind - I don't know which talent makes it part of an attack, but this talent is good: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo-rogu e-talents/underhanded-trick/
flanking: besides having allies help, see the feat gang up.
Scout archetype: can also work with circling mongoose style.
Improved invisibility: if you have a party member with 4th level arcane spells, well worth the slot.
I think the reason you do not see Outslug Style (and more likely the 2nd and 3rd feats in the style) recommended for many rogues is that it is a very feat intensive style, and that some of those feats will not be available for quite some time.
Like the full style is going to cost 6 feats: the three feats that make up the style (Outslug Style, Outslug weave, Outslug Sprint), Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus, and Lunge. Lunge not being available to rogues until level 9, and being a prerequisite for weave and sprint. So the earliest you can have the "can 10' step" thing going is level 9, with retraining. Depending on how high level your game will get, that might not be something to aim for (PFS, which a lot of people play, stops around level 12.)
Though weapon focus is a good thing to have anyway, and combat expertise
is a prerequisite for most feinting feats, so those aren't bad feats to take anyway. You might just not want to commit yourself to Outslug style.
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I think the reason you do not see Outslug Style (and more likely the 2nd and 3rd feats in the style) recommended for many rogues is that it is a very feat intensive style, and that some of those feats will not be available for quite some time.
Like the full style is going to cost 6 feats: the three feats that make up the style (Outslug Style, Outslug weave, Outslug Sprint), Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus, and Lunge. Lunge not being available to rogues until level 9, and being a prerequisite for weave and sprint. So the earliest you can have the "can 10' step" thing going is level 9, with retraining. Depending on how high level your game will get, that might not be something to aim for (PFS, which a lot of people play, stops around level 12.)
Though weapon focus is a good thing to have anyway, and combat expertise
is a prerequisite for most feinting feats, so those aren't bad feats to take anyway. You might just not want to commit yourself to Outslug style.
I think you'd really have to dip master of many styles or some other way of skipping pre-reqs first, brawler for example would be nice too. With unchained rogue dex to damaage, it's easy to be far from useless even without sneak attack.
I think you'd really have to dip master of many styles or some other way of skipping pre-reqs first, brawler for example would be nice too. With unchained rogue dex to damaage, it's easy to be far from useless even without sneak attack.
Master of Many styles just lets you get the first feat without the prerequisites, Outslug Weave and Outslug Sprint both ask for Combat Expertise, Lunge, and Weapon Focus as prerequisites so the dip there doesn't help any.
The big hangup of the style chain is Lunge with the BAB 6 requirement, which means it works fine as a mid-career option for Brawlers, Fighters, and even Swashbucklers (with the waveblade or versatile design), with a free retrain of a bonus feat at level 8 you can get the entire chain finished. For everybody else it's much trickier.
What's up with all those "Rogue as my first character" threads? o.O
I'm gonna copy my text from the other thread.
How adamant are you on playing a Rogue? Because even UnRogue is one of the worst classes to play for a first character. Rogue has a lot of weaknesses, and while it is totally possible to create a fairly strong Rogue, it's far from easy or intuitive.
Rogue's main problem is that the class is not as advertised. Many players think that they have to play a Rogue to play a rogue. The thing is that the Pathfinder Rogue is pretty much the opposite of a rogue!
A rogue is generally a bit of a loner, stealthy, good at many things, and a master of precice, deadly attacks. A Pathfinder Rogue is extremly dependent on teamwork *, is not particular good at skills (and especially not at the stuff you want to use skills for) **, way worse at stealth than almost any arcane caster, and can't hit the broad side of a barn without an ally on the other side of it saying "strike this way" ***.
*) Flanking is the best way to get Sneak Attack, and Unchained Rogue's main Debilitating Injury is only really a good thing if others profit from it.
**) Sure, a Rogue has a lot of skill ranks, but I presume that a big number in "total skill points" in the character sheet is not the ultimate goal - the ultimate goal is to be good at many things. Yes, he has more skill points to put in climb, stealth etc. than a Sorcerer, but that guy can simply use Spider Climb/Fly and Invisibility. Also, he doesn't have the attributes for a good charisma without crippling his combat capability, so he'll never be as good a suave, charismatic guy as for instance a bard.
***) Despite the main damage source being "precision damage", the rogue is extremly geared towards many inaccurate attacks. Even more so for Unchained Rogue (which is a straight upgrade but doesn't really fix the problems).
I must admit that I've seen other recent post about a new player wanting a rogue but he seemed asking different things than I so I thought I would be better to create a different thread for my questions. I apologize if I've done it wrong.
No no, it's perfectly fine - I just wanted to express my mild amusement regarding this coincidence.
I liked a lot the idea of aiming to the weak spots of my enemy in combat
Just be prepared that since you can't actually stab someone in the back in Pathfinder, sneak attack might feel more like a damage bonus when ganging up than any "hitting vital organs" stuff.
As long as you know what you're getting into, playing Rogue is fine. Your GM seems to be experienced and knows about the Rogue's limitations and weaknesses, which removes the biggest danger. I would still suggest at least looking at the Slayer, which is rather like a easier, more solid version of the Rogue, but in the end, it's your character, and there are some Rogue things that are actually pretty awesome (like the Petrifying Strike advanced talent). A Teisatsu Vigilante would also very much fit your description, although I haven't actually seen one, so i don't know how it is in actual play.
You can pretty much ignore the dual-identity part of the Vigilante if you want. The only penalty for using Vigilante talents in your social identity is that "people might figure out that your social identity and your vigilante identity are the same" but if you pull a Tony Stark and just tell everybody that you're iron man, the only thing you're going to lose is the scrying resistance (that you don't care about since you told everybody who you are.)
I mean, "Something's up with that one" is a thing that normal people assume about most adventurers, it's just that the vigilante has the choice to avoid that if they want.
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It's also worth considering the Archaeologist Bard.
"This archetype also fits rogue-like characters that focus more on learning than on stabbing foes in the back."
It's true that Rogues are somewhat of a trap class for new players, since it's very easy to make an ineffective character if you don't know what you're doing.
I know you said your GM said no hybrid classes, but I would ask him to reconsider, especially for the Slayer.
The Slayer has a great chassis: Full Base Attack Bonus, Good Fortitude and Reflex Saving Throws, 1d10 Hit Dice, 6+ Skills per level, all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields.
They get a neat and simple attack booster at 1st level, Slayer Talents every even level, and Sneak Attack every 3 levels.
The Slayer Talents let you choose a Ranger Combat Style, so you essentially get to choose bonus feats at levels 2, 6, and 10 that you don't have to meet the requirements for, so they're easy. They're also a selection of short lists, and that makes it a lot easier than the Fighter's list of 1000 feats. You can also pick more "Rogue-like" stuff like Weapon Finesse, Trapfinding, and actual Rogue Talents.
It's a fun and easy class, and has lots of utility both in and outside of combat. You can choose skills to be athletic, mobile, sneaky, perceptive, woodsy, knowledgeable, and people skills.
Alternatively, check out the Investigator and Swashbuckler.
First: I support asking the GM the read up on the Slayer - it's really not a complicated class, so he shouldn't have any problem with it.
some Rogue things that are actually pretty awesome (like the Petrifying Strike advanced talent)add "Crippling strike" advanced talent and take down the "to hit" or "AC" of the enemy (sadly I'm sure I've read "Only one talent that add effects to a rogue’s sneak attack can be applied to an individual attack").
The beauty of Petrifying Strike is not only that you help your other attacks hit every time you use it, it's that often, higher level enemies are big monsters with lots of strength but little dexterity. You can immobilize a CR22 dragon in three attacks.
In comparison, Crippling Strike is awesome against humanoid caster enemies.I've stopped to read it when got to the "Dual Identity"
Skip that class feature. I'm not kidding, just skip it! Actually, skip right to Vigilante Specialization. Read only the class table, Vigilante Specialization, and Vigilante Talent, and then decide whether you like the class based on those three things.
If you still don't like it, fine. If you do, simply don't ever enter your "vigilante identity". The class actually works better if you don't try that stuff. No second name, no second alignment, just be "Backstabber Bob", like you'd be as a Rogue.
Your rogue looks really good.
1. Name. I usually like a "fantasy sounding" first name and a compound word last name, like Melkor Redblade or Korigan Dragonstar. I also like my "fantasy sounding" name to be derived from a real world language, like Banboc means Fair Deer in Celtic/Old English. You probably want to pick a name that is easy for your friends and GM to pronounce. I personally try to avoid extraneous apostrophes and hyphens, like D'orcan-ded-Bro'oke. You also probably want to avoid names that can be "corrupted" in jokes or bad puns, like Bunir Abbot (bunny rabbit).
2. Traits. It sounds like you took the Fates Favored feat, which is pretty awesome. It increases any Luck bonus you get by 1. It increases the +1 luck bonus to saving throws you get Sacred Tattoo to +2. It's popular with divine casters (like clerics, paladins, and inquisitors) because one of their 1st level spells is divine favor, which gives a +1 luck bonus to attack and damage, so +2 with that trait.
Speaking of saving throws, Fortitude saves are generally weak for rogues. You are getting +2 from your Con score and +2 from Sacred Tattoo, and your second trait is giving you an additional +2 against poison and disease, which are very common afflictions to deal with, so you are doing great there. You also have +4 on Will saves, which is also good.
3. Con, Hit Points, and Saving Throws. Yes. But you can do that with magic equipment as you level up. Many campaigns let you spend gold to buy magic items. Cloaks of Resistance grant a +1 to +5 bonus to saving throws. Belts of Mighty Constitution grant +2, +4, or +6 to Constitution, which help your hit points and Fortitude saves. There are other items that help Dexterity, which will probably be a priority for you, too. Dexterity helps your AC, Reflex saving throws, Initiative, finesse and ranged weapon attack rolls, I think Unchained Rogue finesse damage rolls, and many skills, like Acrobatics, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Ride, and Stealth.
Also, as you level up, at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, you can raise an ability score by +1. For example, you can raise your Dexterity to 18 at level 4. Also, saving throws and hit points increase every level too.
4. Yes. Use Magic Device lets you borrow magic items from your party cleric and wizard (such as a wand of cure light wounds if your cleric gets knocked unconscious and needs someone else to heal him). Also, you can get your own wand of divine favor and use it on yourself to give yourself a +2 to attack and damage rolls. Also, you can use the skill Use Magic Device to activate bard and druid and paladin items nobody else in your party can use.
EDIT:
I would also suggest putting at least 1 rank into Climb. Maybe swap out Ride for Climb unless you know you will be doing A LOT of riding.
Welcome to Pathfinder Anaclêto. You've asked about several things, but hopefully this helps as much as all the rest of the posts.
..common strategy..as a secondary combatant in a fight, Rogues using what is around them to their advantage is a plus. That could be terrain to move into position for flanking, or dropping a chandelier or rock onto the bad guy/monster. The Barbarian is likely to wade directly into combat, the rogue fighting cleverly is great.
..roleplaying tips..personality quirks or favorite "stuff" add fun flavor to the game. A fear of snakes, or must have their coffee in the morning or a favorite beverage is requested at every tavern, a facial tick or scar, or being a half orc maybe your character thinks some odd foods(to humans) taste really good. Maybe part of the 8 CHA is your half orc talks to an invisible friend. What we see as weaknesses or oddities in real life can make for very memorable characters at the game table. Non-combat situations are moments where a rogue can shine as well with skills.
..names..I very much like what SmiloDan said above about names. I'd add that sometimes having a nickname can be fun too. Depends on the character.
..use magic device..This is indeed a very good skill for a rogue, and broadens a characters usefulness--particularly in unexpected moments.
Your rogue looks really good.
2. Traits. It sounds like you took the Fates Favored feat, which is pretty awesome. It increases any Luck bonus you get by 1. It increases the +1 luck bonus to saving throws you get Sacred Tattoo to +2. It's popular with divine casters (like clerics, paladins, and inquisitors) because one of their 1st level spells is divine favor, which gives a +1 luck bonus to attack and damage, so +2 with that trait.
Speaking of saving throws, Fortitude saves are generally weak for rogues. You are getting +2 from your Con score and +2 from Sacred Tattoo, and your second trait is giving you an additional +2 against poison and disease, which are very common afflictions to deal with, so you are doing great there. You also have +4 on Will saves, which is also good.
1st-level half-orc rogue with Fate's Favored in need of fort and will-saves, did I hear?
Multi-class two levels of Warpriest. (And swap that second trait for Magical Knack[warpriest] to get the Divine Favor/Fate's Favored Luck bonus up to +3.)
Then take another level of rogue at 4th, then a level of barbarian or bloodrager at 5th, taking Extra Rage in the general feat slot. After that, whatever you like.
Your rogue looks really good.
2. Traits. It sounds like you took the Fates Favored feat, which is pretty awesome. It increases any Luck bonus you get by 1. It increases the +1 luck bonus to saving throws you get Sacred Tattoo to +2. It's popular with divine casters (like clerics, paladins, and inquisitors) because one of their 1st level spells is divine favor, which gives a +1 luck bonus to attack and damage, so +2 with that trait.
Speaking of saving throws, Fortitude saves are generally weak for rogues. You are getting +2 from your Con score and +2 from Sacred Tattoo, and your second trait is giving you an additional +2 against poison and disease, which are very common afflictions to deal with, so you are doing great there. You also have +4 on Will saves, which is also good.
1st-level half-orc rogue with Fate's Favored in need of fort and will-saves, did I hear?
Multi-class two levels of Warpriest. (And swap that second trait for Magical Knack[warpriest] to get the Divine Favor/Fate's Favored Luck bonus up to +3.)
Then take another level of rogue at 4th, then a level of barbarian or bloodrager at 5th, taking Extra Rage in the general feat slot. After that, whatever you like.
And remember to take the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat to regain your lost Sneak Attack dice.
Or don't worry about multi-classing. You're new and might not want to complicate things. Your racial bonus is giving you a pretty good bonus. +4 Fortitude (+6 vs. poison and disease), +7 Reflex, he+4 Will is pretty good.
But if you do want to multi-class, Slim Jim's idea about multi-classing into a divine caster is a good idea. Cleric, paladin, inquisitor (with Rage sub-domain), or warpriest are all solid options. They have good Fortitude and Will saving throws, which complements the rogue's good Reflex save. If you're planning on mostly doing melee or ranged combat, you want to keep your BAB (Base Attack Bonus) as high as possible, so if you are multiclassing 3/4 BAB classes (like rogue, cleric, warpriest, and inquisitor), you might want to take the classes in batches of 4. Like Rogue 4/Inquisitor 4, etc. Inquisitors are 6/9 divine casters with 6 skill points per level and some fun class features that primarily self-buff in combat. Warpriests are 6/9 divine casters with 2 skill points per level and excel at self-buffing in combat.
@Anaclêto: Your GM seems to be quite experienced and knowledable, which is a very good thing. I'd say you relax, play a few levels, and then decide where to go from there. It's good to have a general plan, but always be ready to adapt. See if you're content with your Rogue before you play any multiclassing or something.
I obviously can't say anything about your GM's style, but if you noticable lag behind, it's not too unlikely that you'll find a nice magical dagger in the next loot...
Favored Class Bonus to HP is the usual choice on a Rogue. Sacred Tattoo+Fate's Favored is a pretty popular thing. Both these things patch up on your most glaring weaknesses.
Regarding the campaign trait... that's Rise of the Runelords? Merchant Family would be the stronges camapign trait aviable, but I guess only one player needs to have it. Next best in my opinion would be Giant Hunter, but I haven't played the campaign. In any way, it's only a trait - it won't break your character if it's not super awesome.
Regarding name: Depends on your backstory - Half-Orcs can be raised by humans, orcs, or even other half-orcs (the biggest half-orc settlement is in what's the equivalent to Norway, so you could very well use a scandinavian sounding name). A human or even (HO) raised HO might have a pretty normal name, while orcish names are harsher sounding - check the offical name examples for orcs and half-orcs. Note that a surname isn't mandatory, and a pure nickname is fine as well. You can call the character nothing but "The Knife from the Shadows", although you'd probably end up with an unflattering nickname from the other party members.
My current character didn't have a name until literally five minutes after the start of the adventure, and she's simply named "Jenni" (not even Jennifer, just Jenni). Half-drow, so plenty opportunity for something alien sounding or some descriptive, but she's human raised, and thus I went with something simple.
This feat has other feat as prerequisite (Combat Expertise) but the GM thinks is a pretty crap feat so it's deleted from al prerequisites
It is - crippling your offense for a pretty small defense bonus is aweful almost all the time (especially on a Rogue), and writers love to use it as a prereq feat for completely unrelated effects, presumably because of the name. Relay a thumps up to your GM for me!
Multi-class two levels of Warpriest. (And swap that second trait for Magical Knack[warpriest] to get the Divine Favor/Fate's Favored Luck bonus up to +3.)
I'd vote against multiclassing the first character, to be honest. Not the least because if one starts taking levels in Warpriest or Barbarian, going back to Rogue might be harder than expected. Also, the APG says "If your GM uses campaign traits, one of your starting traits must be a campaign trait."
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As far as a name goes, my suggestion is to start by figuring out where your character came from. I typically read a bit about the area and come pick a real-world culture that seems a good approximation for the inhabitants. Then I search for historical names (eg. "medieval byzantine name" for a character from Taldor), or look at modern baby name lists, and pick one I like the sound of.
A Cloak of Resistance is a very good idea. My personal preference is to invest about 1/4 of my total wealth into upgrading my cloak.
Yeah, the cloak is key. Especially at higher levels, lots of opponents will have special abilities that require a saving throw to resist them.
Your English is way better than my French, Spanish, and Indonesian!
There are also online resources for names, and even most published races have "typical names" for various races. You can take a non-orc or non-human name and make it your own. You can take a baby name, and change a letter or two to make it "fantasy," like in GRRM's Game of Throne stuff (Eddard for Edward, Joffrey for Jeffrey, Jaime for Jaime, Robert for Robert, wait a minute...).
Multi-class two levels of Warpriest. (And swap that second trait for Magical Knack[warpriest] to get the Divine Favor/Fate's Favored Luck bonus up to +3.)I'd vote against multiclassing the first character, to be honest. Not the least because if one starts taking levels in Warpriest or Barbarian, going back to Rogue might be harder than expected.
Well, you take the 2nd-level in rogue because Fireballs hurt, and rogue talents offer a lot more variety compared to low-level barbarian rage powers.
The hardest rogue level to take is 5th -- at which point you are committed.