So I'm (sorta) familiar with the rules for Vampires and know that unless you use...
- Keep him from getting to his coffin in gaseous form
- Stake to the heart + beheading + blessing the head
- 3 rounds under running water
- 2 rounds in direct sunlight
...then they are pretty much immune to death. But it is very specific in the Defensive Abilities entry that once a vampire hits 0 HP it becomes Gaseous and is immune to further damage.
Vampires cannot enter a private home or dwelling unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so.
Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't always destroy it (see fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight staggers it on the first round of exposure and destroys it utterly on the second consecutive round of exposure if it does not escape. Each round of immersion in running water inflicts damage on a vampire equal to one-third of its maximum hit points—a vampire reduced to 0 hit points in this manner is destroyed. Driving a wooden stake through a helpless vampire's heart instantly slays it (this is a full-round action). However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the head is also severed and anointed with holy water.
But what about Vampire Spawn? From what I can tell they do not get the Defensive Abilities entry of Vampires, just the Weaknesses (which also indicate they are pretty much immune to death). So if a Vampire Spawn hits 0 HP would it become Gaseous? And if not, does additional damage take it into Negative Hitpoints? How many Negative Hitpoints could it take since it doesn't have a Constitution score? Would it just continually heal until its HP is back to 0 or higher, even after millions of points of damage, and then just wake back up?
Also, does Silver stop its Fast Healing? Would this allow the it do die similar to how one would kill a Troll with fire? (or am I misunderstanding something about Fast Healing?)
And I'm sure someone will mention it, I do agree that once its unconscious taking its head off and blessing it would destroy it, but I'd like to figure out what happens if a group of adventurers didn't know this and just beat it into a puddle of goo.
So I guess my post was a bit to disorganized. I'll summarize my questions better.
1. When a Vampire Spawn goes to 0 HP does it become Gaseous like an actual Vampire or does it just become disabled like most creatures?
2. If it does not become Gaseous at 0 HP does additional damage take it into Negative Hitpoints?
3. If its HP does go below 0, how many Negative Hitpoints would it take since it doesn't have a Constitution score? Possibly its Charisma score?
4. If there is a limit to the number of Negative Hitpoints it can have does a Vampire Spawn die once it reaches this limit or does it just stay at that number of Negative Hitpoints while its Fast Healing takes affect?
5. If there is no limit to the number of Negative Hitpoints it can receive would it simply never die no matter how many Negative Hitpoints its received, and would it then just slowly heal from its Fast Healing until its once again conscious?
You are misunderstanding Fast Healing. It stops immediately when the creature reaches negative Con HP and dies. The thing that stays on and brings the creature back no matter how negative it goes is Regeneration.
Dunno about the rest.
So I guess my post was a bit to disorganized. I'll summarize my questions better.
1. When a Vampire Spawn goes to 0 HP does it become Gaseous like an actual Vampire or does it just become disabled like most creatures?
2. If it does not become Gaseous at 0 HP does additional damage take it into Negative Hitpoints?
3. If its HP does go below 0, how many Negative Hitpoints would it take since it doesn't have a Constitution score? Possibly its Charisma score?
4. If there is a limit to the number of Negative Hitpoints it can have does a Vampire Spawn die once it reaches this limit or does it just stay at that number of Negative Hitpoints while its Fast Healing takes affect?
5. If there is no limit to the number of Negative Hitpoints it can receive would it simply never die no matter how many Negative Hitpoints its received, and would it then just slowly heal from its Fast Healing until its once again conscious?
1) Don't know. Vampire spawn do gain the gaseous form ability, but it doesn't say anything about gaining the defensive ability of the vampire to assume gaseous form to escape destruction at 0 hit points. That isn't a part of the gaseous form ability, but a separate defensive ability. If I was forced to answer, I would say vampire spawn don't gain that particular ability, and die as normal at 0 hit points instead of turning gaseous.
2, 3, 4, 5) Undead can't go into negative hit points. They are destroyed at 0 hit points. Normal vampires have an exception (turning gaseous at 0 hit points) but it isn't clear if the same applies to spawn.
Both undead and constructs are destroyed at 0 hit points. It is a function of their creature type.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
You are misunderstanding Fast Healing. It stops immediately when the creature reaches negative Con HP and dies. The thing that stays on and brings the creature back no matter how negative it goes is Regeneration.
Dunno about the rest.
Ahh, ok. That is an important distinction I was not aware of. Thank you! *Goes to read Regeneration rules*
2, 3, 4, 5) Undead can't go into negative hit points. They are destroyed at 0 hit points. Normal vampires have an exception (turning gaseous at 0 hit points) but it isn't clear if the same applies to spawn.Both undead and constructs are destroyed at 0 hit points. It is a function of their creature type.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
Thanks that is also very helpful! I'm just trying to reconcile the following section of the Vampire Weaknesses (which the text explicitly states Vampire Spawn do receive) indicating that like the full Vampire the Vampire Spawn are not always destroyed when brought to 0 hit points, except when the specific conditions listed are met of course.
Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't always destroy it (see fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight staggers it on the first round of exposure and destroys it utterly on the second consecutive round of exposure if it does not escape. Each round of immersion in running water inflicts damage on a vampire equal to one-third of its maximum hit points—a vampire reduced to 0 hit points in this manner is destroyed. Driving a wooden stake through a helpless vampire's heart instantly slays it (this is a full-round action). However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the head is also severed and anointed with holy water.
Here is the link to the PRD's entry for Vampire and Vampire Spawn (which is at the bottom).
The issue here is that the rules lists the vampire's 0 hp effects under defensive abilities, after Fast Healing 5. This is actually part of the description of the vampire's fast healing ability.
The vampire spawn receives fast healing 2. Its weaknesses are the same as a vampire's weaknesses, and the weaknesses section references the fast healing section "(See fast healing.)"
Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't always destroy it (see fast healing).
The fast healing description should be considered to include all the text below:
A vampire also gains fast healing 5. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, a vampire assumes gaseous form (see below) and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can normally travel up to 9 miles in 2 hours.) Additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest, the vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round.
The only difference, then, is that the vampire spawn receives fast healing 2 instead of fast healing 5. The details of the vampire spawn and vampire fast healing functionality are the same, as the vampire weaknesses reference the fast healing section.
This was actually a bit more clear in 3.5e when Fast Healing was its own entry under the vampire and vampire spawn creatures in the Monster Manual. The functionality has not changed, but fast healing was grouped under Defensive Abilities instead of its own Fast Healing listing.
It's just a layout change that makes it less clear.
The issue here is that the rules lists the vampire's 0 hp effects under defensive abilities, after Fast Healing 5. This is actually part of the description of the vampire's fast healing ability.
The vampire spawn receives fast healing 2. Its weaknesses are the same as a vampire's weaknesses, and the weaknesses section references the fast healing section "(See fast healing.)"
Reducing a vampire's hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn't always destroy it (see fast healing).The fast healing description should be considered to include all the text below:
A vampire also gains fast healing 5. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, a vampire assumes gaseous form (see below) and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can normally travel up to 9 miles in 2 hours.) Additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest, the vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round.The only difference, then, is that the vampire spawn receives fast healing 2 instead of fast healing 5. The details of the vampire spawn and vampire fast healing functionality are the same, as the vampire weaknesses reference the fast healing section.
This was actually a bit more clear in 3.5e when Fast Healing was its own entry under the vampire and vampire spawn creatures in the Monster Manual. The functionality has not changed, but fast healing was grouped under Defensive Abilities instead of its own Fast Healing listing.
It's just a layout change that makes it less clear.
Ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly the Vampire Spawn should have the same "If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, a vampire assumes gaseous form (see below) and attempts to escape" text, just with a Fast Healing of 2 instead of 5 in their normal form.
That does make sense, wish the text was more clear either way.
You understand me correctly. :-)
Note that vampire spawn also have the resurrection vulnerability of wights as the vampire spawn template is built from a wight and does not remove that weakness of the wight.
Certainly! :)
This is actually one of the reasons I wanted ask. Compared to Wights a Vampire Spawn seems like it would be much stronger with the stricter rules about destruction that Vampires posses. I could have seen it going either way.
If you've got someone willing to hold the charge on a Raise Dead spell to use as a touch attack, I'm impressed. That one minute casting time really puts a damper on people using it as an attack spell, in my experience.
Resurrection Vulnerability (Su) A raise dead or similar spell cast on a wight destroys it (Will negates). Using the spell in this way does not require a material component.
Of course the wording of Resurrection Vulnerability says Raise Dead or similar spell. So you could argue for using Breath of Life, that has a casting time of one standard action. The wording is vague enough on Resurrection Vulnerability that use of Breath of Life might be up to your GM. I've never thought about how it relates to the issue before.
I don't think the wording on Resurrection Vulnerability is clear enough to know definitively if Breath of Life should work, but Breath of Life doesn't have the wording "This spell functions like Raise Dead except..." like Resurrection and True Resurrection do, so it probably isn't intended to work.
I think for my campaign I might allow Breath of Life to work with Resurrection Vulnerability, but only if it reduces the spectre/wight/vampire spawn to 0 hp from its own damage. (It deals 5d8+1 per caster level (max +25) positive energy damage and can bring back someone that died within one round if the hp healed can get them above their death threshold.) That would be a house rule though. Without that "functions like Raise Dead except" wording, it may not count as similar enough by RAW.
For what it is worth, while Pathfinder isn't as clear as it could be 3.5 D&D was clear:
Fast Healing (Ex)
A vampire spawn heals 2 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can travel up to nine miles in 2 hours.) Once at rest in its coffin, it is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 2 hit points per round.
I believe in the curse of the crimson throne AP, the players fight vampire spawn and it says that they turn to gas and head to their nearby coffins, which seems to indicate they get that when they reach 0 HP.
What's really funny is that this is the exact encounter I'm preparing that prompted me to ask this question. But I have the newer Anniversary Edition and I it apparently omits that detail regarding the Vampire Spawn.
I believe in the curse of the crimson throne AP, the players fight vampire spawn and it says that they turn to gas and head to their nearby coffins, which seems to indicate they get that when they reach 0 HP.What's really funny is that this is the exact encounter I'm preparing that prompted me to ask this question. But I have the newer Anniversary Edition and I it apparently omits that detail regarding the Vampire Spawn.
That adventure path was originally written using 3.5 D&D rules (where it is specifically stated vampire spawn turn gaseous), as Pathfinder didn't yet exist as its own ruleset. If The adventure was changed in the anniversary edition to remove that part, it may be an indication that vampire spawn no longer work that way.
Huh, I was referring to the anniversary edition. Maybe I interpreted it that way, our must remembered it wrong. Or it is slightly later in that section.
There is mention of someone returning to their coffin, but it isn't any of the spawn.