Villain Foreshadowing

[Calnar]

****Spoiler Warning American Gods Book*****

Hey all, so continuing to flesh out a campaign I am working on. I have a core villain that I want to introduce early, but remain close and helpful to the party. In part I am basing this villain off of a friends character in a game I played in and partly off of Odin in American Gods. I was thinking that they will "rescue" this Oracle of the Dark Tapestry in a tower top from some Cthulhu styled minions. Another girl currently sacrificed on the altar and this girl in a cage. I want her to in secret be the high priestess of the cult. I planned to give her the feat where her tongue was altered to pronounce things in alien languages. I though I could somewhat cover this by having the sacrifice's tongue also be altered, though the sacrifices's would be raw and bleeding. My character would be attempting to help the party along the way to go with them to the "final battle" so she could claim the blood spilled as a sacrifice and use energy to raise an elder god.

What I am looking for though is seeds to plant throughout the campaign. Things so that even though she is helpful to them and I want them to consider her a friend, that when she betrays them the disparate clues make it seem like, "how did we not see this coming?"

[JohnHawkins]

This all depends on how your players think. Make sure your plot is flexible enough to cope with them working it out much earlier than you want (and much later than you expect)

[Bwang]

Ouch! Good luck! Your players may attempt bodily harm if you do it right.

[Calnar]

JohnHawkins wrote:

This all depends on how your players think. Make sure your plot is flexible enough to cope with them working it out much earlier than you want (and much later than you expect)

Yes I have alternates for how the play will go if they figure it out early. If she is able to get away then she will just become a more typical villain, my least favorite alternative. If she is not then her death might just become the key that is needed to unleash Cthulu, something like a willing sacrifice by a righteous hand or something like that. If they are too late well when she starts chanting and then rejoicing at Cthulu showing up that should give things away and if they think it's a mistake and try to rescue her well that just gives me fun opportunities for the narrative.

My question though is more a brainstorming effort of ideas for possible ways to slip in hints at her evil nature, but not enough that players are likely to guess a head of time. I agree that I need to know how my players think over all and I may nix certain ideas as I know it wouldn't work with them. But there are six of them and 1 of me, so wanted to generate ideas that might be useful to sprinkle in. Any ideas I could use?

[Calnar]

Bwang wrote:

Ouch! Good luck! Your players may attempt bodily harm if you do it right.

This is the exact feelings I am hoping for.

[Dastis]

I'm a big fan of the rule of 3. The first they will miss, the second they will misinterpret, and the last might make them suspicious. They should be in the details. Dismiss able as quirks but still notable enough to possibly be remembered. I would make her very likable as a person so look into likable character traits and add a bit of depth and she should be ok in the friendship department. Also to add impact make her similiar in thinking to one of the PCs, perhaps allowing them to grow even more close while building narrative tension and creating a nice foil. If they suspect her you can have her frame a fake villain, preferably someone who stands in her way anyway. They will probably still suspect her even if they get no more reason to but it can establish things as closer to your original narrative.

[Ventnor]

If you really want to add a twist on this, what if this high priestess villain of yours actually considers the PCs to be her friends? As in, even if she's manipulating them to her own ends, she genuinely and likes them and would let them in on what she's trying to do if she wasn't sure that they'd probably object to her plans?

If you go with this idea, then some discussions she has with PCs on the nature of forgiveness and if people who disagree with each other can still be friends could be some foreshadowing.

[Calnar]

Dastis wrote:

I'm a big fan of the rule of 3. The first they will miss, the second they will misinterpret, and the last might make them suspicious. They should be in the details. Dismiss able as quirks but still notable enough to possibly be remembered. I would make her very likable as a person so look into likable character traits and add a bit of depth and she should be ok in the friendship department. Also to add impact make her similiar in thinking to one of the PCs, perhaps allowing them to grow even more close while building narrative tension and creating a nice foil. If they suspect her you can have her frame a fake villain, preferably someone who stands in her way anyway. They will probably still suspect her even if they get no more reason to but it can establish things as closer to your original narrative.

I like the idea, though how far apart would you space the 3? I am planning on this being a long running campaign, so real time this may take a year to 3. So if it appears that it is going on the 3 year line, would I introduce on thing a year? And what sorts of things would you use? I definitely plan on her helping them to clear out centers of worship for her deities, something along the idea of being able to dedicate those deaths to the summoning.

[Calnar]

Ventnor wrote:

If you really want to add a twist on this, what if this high priestess villain of yours actually considers the PCs to be her friends? As in, even if she's manipulating them to her own ends, she genuinely and likes them and would let them in on what she's trying to do if she wasn't sure that they'd probably object to her plans?

If you go with this idea, then some discussions she has with PCs on the nature of forgiveness and if people who disagree with each other can still be friends could be some foreshadowing.

Nice I like that, so when she is doing the summoning at the end it would be victorious, but add some tears like Moses after the last plague in the price of Egypt. I think I would have her grow into that idea of friendship though. Adds some nice flavor to her character.

[Bwang]

We had a 'quest giver' that kept sending us on progressively more dangerous missions (higher CRs) and feeding each of us outright lies to cause distrust, very successfully I might add. Think a final boss fight where no one helps anyone else.

[Tinalles]

Mechanics:

1) She needs a high bluff score. In addition, avoid lying directly whenever possible.

2) If a player asks for a sense motive check against her, do NOT actually roll a die for her. That would be a dead giveaway that something is up, and frankly it takes extremely disciplined players to ignore that kind of metagame knowledge. Either use a set DC in your head, or else roll her bluff checks in advance of each session and write them down so you can just read the next one off a convenient note.

3) Does she need a holy symbol to cast her spells? If so, she needs to be able to hide it very well. Perhaps you could use that trait that lets a birthmark function as a holy symbol. If you're feeling bold, it could even be in plain sight and part of her bid to be accepted by the party: "Yes, I know I have this awful birthmark on my cheek -- those awful cultists chose me for sacrifice because of it!"

4) Does the party have any way of detecting evil, or other alignment-revealing techniques? She'll need to be prepared for that. An Undetectable Alignment spell will conceal that; but the very lack of an alignment could be suspicious if they expect her to have one. Also, the spell would be obvious to anyone with Detect Magic and a decent spellcraft score. Any magical aura changes should themselves be masked using Magic Aura, or preferably Greater Magic Aura. And she'll need to be able to refresh those spells at regular intervals. She can't have magic gear for this -- as a sacrificial victim in a cage, her captors would logically have taken away all of her possessions (barring, perhaps, a sacrificial robe of some kind which as a totally legit and real prisoner she would be eager to exchange for normal clothing at the first opportunity).

Story:

1) The "Oh look, our rescued prisoner just turned out to be an evil liar" thing happens pretty often. For this to work, she will need some serious verisimilitude. As in, she needs to order her minions to actually treat her like a prisoner for a while before the PCs arrive. By the time they get there, she should be extremely hungry because she really hasn't had anything but water and stale bread in a week. She should have a variety of totally real bruises and wounds from her poor treatment, all acquired by ordering her minions to beat her up. Nothing says "genuine prisoner" quite like a three-day-old black eye.

2) If she can arrange to get thrown into a cell with other actually REAL prisoners for a while, then they can back up her story with their own accounts of how horribly the guards treated all of them.

3) She needs to be genuinely helpful to the PCs. Giving them real info that helps them achieve their immediate goals will establish her bona fides. As a bonus, she can use the PCs to extract vengeance on her minions. ("Yeah yeah yeah, I DID tell you to beat me up," she thinks, "but you didn't have to be quite THAT enthusiastic about it! Here, meet my new friend Mr. Nice Guy. And also his greataxe.")

4) It sounds like she's playing a LONG game. As in, she expects to maintain this persona for some time. She will need something that makes her useful to them in the long run. Information busting her minions works great initially, but pretty soon they'll finish cleaning out the place where they found her, and then she'll need something new to contribute. If she keeps giving intel on the cult, very soon they'll start to wonder how she, a simple prisoner, knows all this. Does she fight alongside them? Does she cast spells to heal them? If she's so good at fighting, how did those cultist mooks catch her in the first place? She'll need an answer to that. Likewise, if she can cast healing spells, why didn't she heal herself when she was a prisoner? She'll need an answer to that too.

5) What's her name? As in, "I'm totally not Morvaine Darsuul, High Priestess of Shub Nigurath. I'm ... Sandy. Sandy Knickerbocker." She needs at least a little backstory for her assumed persona.

6) Finally, she needs a goal. What exactly is she hoping to achieve by this elaborate deception? Is she simply gathering intel on the PCs? Is she hoping to use them to attack her cult's enemies, or a rival faction of the same cult? Is she trying to drive a wedge between the PCs and one of their genuine allies so the ally can be destroyed? Is she using the PCs as the first step in an even larger plan to gain access through them to some organization they belong to so she can destroy it from the inside out? Is she trying to corrupt the PCs themselves? Having a clear goal for her is what will make the character work.

[Calnar]

Tinalles wrote:

Mechanics:

Story:

Mechanics
1. Check she is an Oracle (Charisma caster) and she is going to have several feats dedicated to bluffing well.

2. Yeah I figure on having 5 or so rolls written down for her bluff at any given time.

3. I believe not, and doesn't need to prepare.

4. Not especially but there is an arcanist and an oracle in the party, so they could potentially learn detect evil. Hmm need to look up if those spells are ones she can learn.

Story

1. I wasn't going to beat her up because she will have access to healing magic. This is also how I was going to explain that the sacrifice the party will walk in on will have her tongue freshly mutilated, while the villain will have hers still deformed, but apparently healed. (Real reason, sacrifice was freshly mutilated, while the villain's was done as a child so she could pronounce Cthuluesq text.)

2. I was going to have her cry about the girl being sacrificed on the alter. Possibly even claim it was her sister. I was thinking of this initially being an escape plan, but then villain realizes she can use them to get her will done. Possibly giving them magic items that dedicate their kills to releasing her gods. Dedicating the "final battle field" to her gods so that the death toll their releases them.

3. I was thinking that she will find them later. She might present it as clearing out other dens of evil or vengeance for her imprisonment. She will give apparent aid, but as above this works toward her ends.

4. Long game indeed. She will fight along side them. I plan on her working to dedicate their kills to releasing her gods, so even slaughtering her own cult members will be in line with that goal.

5. Good thought. Maybe in the cult she is known by a title or moniker. "The Mistress" maybe, also on the same line a mask she wore during cult rites might be appropriate.

6. Duping them into releasing her gods.

[Deadmanwalking]

Undetectable Alignment is a 2nd level Cleric Spell and has a duration of 24 hours. She should pick it as a spell known and always be under its effects.

[RealAlchemy]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Undetectable Alignment is a 2nd level Cleric Spell and has a duration of 24 hours. She should pick it as a spell known and always be under its effects.

Misdirection (bard/sorceror/wizard 2) is even better.

[Deadmanwalking]

RealAlchemy wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Undetectable Alignment is a 2nd level Cleric Spell and has a duration of 24 hours. She should pick it as a spell known and always be under its effects.

Misdirection (bard/sorceror/wizard 2) is even better.

Misdirection has a 1 hour/level duration and can thus only be used selectively, and also requires s subject who isn't Evil in the vicinity (which isn't hard since you can use objects...but that subject will detect as evil while you're using it, which is a suspicious thing for objects to detect as). Plus it allows a Will Save to overcome it (this part is a huge downside). Undetectable Alignment is absolute and lasts 24 hours.

Thus, for purposes of concealing that you're Evil over a lengthy period of time, Undetectable Alignment is simply the superior option. Misdirection is great for, well, misdirecting people to think someone else is Evil or guilty or possessed or what have you, but for just establishing your own bonafides Undetectable Alignment is superior, and that's what the long con requires.

Also, Undetectable Alignment in a Cleric Spell and can thus be done by an Oracle out of their own resources rather than necessitating help (an invaluable distinction if one is undercover).

[Calnar]

Also, Undetectable Alignment in a Cleric Spell and can thus be done by an Oracle out of their own resources rather than necessitating help (an invaluable distinction if one is undercover).

This is definitely spell wise the way to go. I think I have decent plans for how to rules wise give the best chance for accomplishing what I want.

Any ideas on putting in sly hooks that after her betrayal will make it appear as, well of course she was always going to betray us, but in the moment will likely be acceptable.

[TriMarkC]

“Calnar" wrote:

Possibly giving them magic items that dedicate their kills to releasing her gods. Dedicating the "final battle field" to her gods so that the death toll their releases them.
...
She will fight along side them. I plan on her working to dedicate their kills to releasing her gods, so even slaughtering her own cult members will be in line with that goal.
...
Duping them into releasing her gods.

(rubbing hands gleefully) hmmmm I sense a plan coming together...