Hello fellow Pathfinders, i am a Kitsune Level 8 Oracle who is going for 9-tails. I always imagined and described her human form with fox ears and tails considering her specific human form as a human with racial heritage related to Kitsunes. Nobody in my local group objected to it or said it was wrong (including my VLs and VC) but i know Society is strict on rules and i don't want to run into trouble if i ever get out of my local circle with this character. I don't want to create another reskin/reflavor apocalypse. Can a Kitsune have a human form like that? If not, do they have an "in-between" form lore-wise or how can i achieve this otherwise?
A human in Golarion can have fox ears or stranger bits, without being mistaken for something she's not. Mechanically it's purely a disadvantage for you not to pass for a stock standard human, as your racial ability typically would let you do. I think the rules support it and can't see a reason it would be challenged.
Races that are normally tailless having one or more tails is more controversial. I haven't really followed it.
Humans (even with racial heritage) don't have tails, so I'd say that's not really a valid form.
However, the SLAs you get from the extra tails still apply whichever form you're in, so a human with tail(s) isn't an attempt to get a mechanical advantage, so I don't think it really matters much.
Fun fact: humans with kitsune heritage can't actually exist, because in the rare event of a kitsune mating with a human, the offspring is always 100% kitsune (which is how you end up with kitsune with non-Tien human forms).
But technically, kitsune remains a valid choice for the Racial Heritage feat.
That said, Starglim is incorrect: humans do not naturally have animal features in Golarion. They may be able to pick them up later from magical effects or alchemical mutations or whatever, but they don't naturally have them (if you want to argue this, you'll need a citation to prove otherwise).
This is important, because your change shape ability is based on alter self, which is a polymorph effect, which transforms you into a set, specific human form. Since it specifies human, that means you appear as a standard human, meaning no animal features; since your human form is a polymorph effect, you couldn't change it with another polymorph effect, only replace the polymorph with another. If you were to override it with another, using your change shape ability wouldn't allow you to take that new form again; just your normal kitsune or human forms.
Also of note: since polymorph effects completely override your base form, effects that change your base form, such as the Magical Tail feat, don't have any effect on your human form.
The only way I can think of to be able to take such a "human" form would be to have someone else polymorph into the exact form you want to take, and then use the Realistic Likeness feat to mimic it; I doubt anyone would object to you claiming you've done this (assuming you have the feat), but you could just pay an NPC for a casting of alter self via the standard spellcasting services. Otherwise, you could potentially use a disguise self effect (such as a hat of disguise) to give yourself the illusory appearance you seek.
Ryuna Yoshimatsu wrote: I don't want to create another reskin/reflavor apocalypse. 5 posts in and you can already tell there will be table variation on this one (and likely some strong feelings on the matter).
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if the DM objects tell them its a clip on.
The Wilding feat (which must be taken at 1st level and gives you Wild Empathy and allows you to qualify for Animal Soul and Aspect of the Beast without meeting prerequisites) in Ultimate Wilderness explicitly states it can manifest as animal features like ears/tail. I have no idea whether anything in UW is PFS legal, though.
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Wilding was, in fact, directly inspired by the desire for this sort of character. ^_^
It's not in the latest Additional Resources update, however. So not legal yet. (And its prerequisites make it a little hard for an 8th-level character to acquire.)
Bloodrealm wrote: The Wilding feat (which must be taken at 1st level and gives you Wild Empathy and allows you to qualify for Animal Soul and Aspect of the Beast without meeting prerequisites) in Ultimate Wilderness explicitly states it can manifest as animal features like ears/tail. I have no idea whether anything in UW is PFS legal, though. well i'm sure SOMETHING will be but its still on the loading dock
Technically, you cannot say your human form has your tails and ears. Shape change also does not give you a "hybrid form." However, most GMs will probably not care.
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Yeah expect table variation, and just in case buy a disguise kit.
Bloodrealm wrote: The Wilding feat (which must be taken at 1st level and gives you Wild Empathy and allows you to qualify for Animal Soul and Aspect of the Beast without meeting prerequisites) in Ultimate Wilderness explicitly states it can manifest as animal features like ears/tail. I have no idea whether anything in UW is PFS legal, though. Without being able to see the feat, I doubt that it will help the OP's character directly. As I said before, as a polymorph effect, the kitsune's change shape will override any other change to their form, continuing to change them into the same unchanged set human form.
That said, it certainly validates that people could have these forms, validating the Realistic Likeness + alter self strategy for a kitsune to gain a "human" form like this.
From what i know change shape isn't a fully polymorph effect because you have a specific human form which you get to customize, not a generic one like alter self gives you.
Thanks for the ideas! I will talk with the GM if i ever get out of my circle, it's not end of the world if i don't have the ears and tails, i just prefer to have them. :)
If material from Bastards of Golarion Players Companion is PFS legal, that could be a viable source possibly, there was an odd inherited features table at end of book for cosmetic looks. Not sure if it's on the legal source material or not.
Ryuna Yoshimatsu wrote: From what i know change shape isn't a fully polymorph effect because you have a specific human form which you get to customize, not a generic one like alter self gives you. Change Shape (Su) wrote: A kitsune can assume the appearance of a specific single human form of the same sex. The kitsune always takes this specific form when she uses this ability. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores and can remain in this form indefinitely. That means that Change Shape works exactly like alter self, except for the differences noted (only one specific form, no ability score adjustments, and no time limit). That means yes, it is a polymorph effect, and the polymorph subschool rules apply.
Scrapper wrote: If material from Bastards of Golarion Players Companion is PFS legal, that could be a viable source possibly, there was an odd inherited features table at end of book for cosmetic looks. Not sure if it's on the legal source material or not. Those features are for humans with non-human ancestry, and while it isn't listed as legal material in the Additional Resources entry for the book, they're just cosmetics with no mechanical effects, so there's nothing wrong with using them to describe your character (or in the case of kitsune, your human form).
That said, that kind of "distant heritage" can't give a human kitsune features, because of this text from Blood of the Beast:
Blood of the Beast pg 12 wrote: Primarily found on distant Tian Xia, kitsune are wily foxfolk shapeshifters who have the ability to assume a unique human guise. In their true forms, kitsune have foxlike faces and tails, as well as digitigrade legs and a coat of downy fur that is often auburn in color but which can range from brown to fulvous and, rarely, black to white. A kitsune’s human appearance is hereditary in nature and shares her true form’s eye and hair color, making these traits common tells for kitsune in disguise. Most kitsune have human forms that are ethnically Tian, but on the rare instances when kitsune and humans couple, any offspring are always kitsune, meaning kitsune of other human ethnicities also exist. Even the most common—Varisian and Erutaki kitsune—make up a vanishingly small minority of kitsune on Golarion. Included the full text because some might find it useful, but the bolded part means that it's impossible for a human to have any kitsune ancestry.
SCPRedMage wrote: Bloodrealm wrote: The Wilding feat (which must be taken at 1st level and gives you Wild Empathy and allows you to qualify for Animal Soul and Aspect of the Beast without meeting prerequisites) in Ultimate Wilderness explicitly states it can manifest as animal features like ears/tail. I have no idea whether anything in UW is PFS legal, though. Without being able to see the feat, I doubt that it will help the OP's character directly. As I said before, as a polymorph effect, the kitsune's change shape will override any other change to their form, continuing to change them into the same unchanged set human form.
That said, it certainly validates that people could have these forms, validating the Realistic Likeness + alter self strategy for a kitsune to gain a "human" form like this. Wilding feat, Ultimate Wilderness, Page 120 wrote:
You were touched by nature at an early age and share a kinship with wild creatures. Your body might bear animalistic features, such as bestial ears or a tail, or your presence may be subtly unlike that of others.
Prerequisites: Any neutral alignment, must be taken at 1st level.
Benefit: You gain the druid's wild empathy ability, using your character level as your druid level. If you have one or more levels in a class that grants wild empathy, you gain an additional +3 bonus on wild empathy checks. You are treated as an animal for the purpose of harmful mind-affecting effects that target animals (such as charm animal).
Special: A character who has this feat can select the Animal Soul or Aspect of the Beast feats without meeting prerequisites.
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