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A non-romance suggestion that could get the same result
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Now I know romancing NPCs in general is a hot button issue for some people, but this question is obviously not for them. I’m GMing Curse of the Crimson Throne, and I plan to do it many more times for different groups. I love it! ** spoiler omitted ** Any ideas I haven’t thought of? I know there are a lot of creative people on these boards, so hit me.
So you have a PC who has romanced Queen Ileosa now?
Interesting...One of mine got involved with Laori.
So for clarification, you're trying to find a hook for a future continuation post-sunken queen?
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There's a couple options here. You could have them investigate Ileosa's contract not so much for her but because it's a loose thread. Play up that there's an even worse threat to Korvosa that's been lurking in the background this whole time. And their only lead to follow-up on that threat to start with is the mysterious benefactor that now owns Ileosa's soul. Or, y'know, have her come back as some sort of diabolic freak that can't be killed except by whoever owns her contract (bonus points if one of them stabs her with Serithiel and she just laughs).
The other main option is . . . if you want your PCs to fall in love with her, make her lovable. Just ignore the whole write-up that makes her a horrible person even without Kazavon, and make her a genuinely nice person. A nice person who keeps having these disturbing memory blackouts where she doesn't feel like herself, or who slowly goes mad (and Evil!) as Kazavon tightens his grip on her soul.
There's varying degrees you can go with that option, all the way down to Ileosa having nothing to do at all with the riots, Eodred's death, and the plague - it's all Glorio's/Andaisin's/Lamm's fault, and she's just the young queen completely out of her depth for ruling a city that hates her unreasonably. A young queen with a hideous monster perched on her head that repeatedly urges her to take the ruthless but effective solution to the city's various and persistent woes.
That does turn the BBEG into more of a victim, but if you shift the focus to Kazavon being the main villain who is clawing his way back to life through Ileosa - and it's a *real BAD* thing if he succeeds, it can work. You also can really ratchet up the body horror angle if they make friends with Ileosa early on and genuinely care about her, as they can do nothing but watch her slowly descend into madness even as she begs them to help her.
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My question is, how to motivate PCs into investigating the Queen’s contract to that extent. It seems like the only reason anyone would even try after she’s been defeated is if they had a desire to free her soul from Hell.
Short answer - she is legitimate monarch (no jokes, she is), they research her copy of the contract and understand that vanquishing her, by the might of cosmic bureaucracy, just passed the city from one tyrant to other. And this later guy, may use it to buy his position in hell back (which may land the city even in worse hands).
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I don't think so. It is not normal for spouses to inherit that way (too much temptation).
Well, Golarion has some differences in inheritance traditions of monarchs.
And yeah, Neolandus, or his heir to the role of seneschal, Marcus Endrin wouldn't choose Ileosa, preferring some distant relative of Eodred or a local noble. However, isn't it lovely that former disappeared without a trace (by being jailed in rakshasas dungeon with no contact to the outside world) and the later tried to assassinate her in broad daylight? How much longer should the office be vacant in the wake of terrible situation like anarchy, traitorous coups and plagues? Maybe an influential arbiter and noble like, lets say, Zenobia Zenderholm, can state that in this dire times, a new person like Togomor, a foreigner with no ties to the city, should take the mantle. If she supports him, well, then it couldn't be that his, a foreigner’s choice, is wrong to elect her as true and only heir?To be short, do not underestimate Ileosa. She had a plan the second Kazavon soulshard possessed her, and it worked like a clock to create her enough of a window of opportunity to get what she wants. Via manipulations and using the law to her favor, in a true lawful evil Palpatine style.
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I have the original CoCT. In those Marcus Endrin was never the seneshal.
He isn't. But here's what guide to Korvosa has to say on who assumes the office if previous one retires or dies:
"The current leader of the Sable Company, Commandant Marcus Thalassinus Endrin, is first in line to become the new seneschal of Castle Korvosa, should Seneschal Neolandus Kalepopolis retire or die."I'm inclined to believe that in Neolandus absence on any ocasion, Marcus should assume his role temporary. It's just that plague was organized by the Queen in such manner, that Endrin would have to remain at Sable Marines command until the crisis gets resolved. Aside from thinning the ranks of the marines and helping her to build a narrative to antagonize Marcus that they where incompetent, quite useless and dragging on the budget.
Neolandis' fate was unknown but he wasn't missing for very long. Did the hardback change that?
Nope. However, AP doesn't have a firm timeline. Neolandus may be in rakshasas paws as short or long as GM decides.
as soon as Neolandis reappears and denounces her she was no longer the legitmate one
I agree, however, by this time she obliterated all old and "above ground" opposition and replaced key positions in the government with her puppets. De facto yes, the laws of the city where by this time just a shell and Neolandus was right, but de jure, she didn't swept them away. Via her puppets she could legitimately drag this "Neolandus" and his claims through a bureaucratic gauntlet before he could be reaffirmed as the missing seneschal (if of course she wouldn't kill him quietly first).
In the end, it all comes down to how much depth a GM wants to put in this AP. Inheritance traditions of autocratic states are always messy. Who is powerful enough to win the internal struggle, gets to be the ruler. And as much as devils are pure evil, they are pure lawfulness too. I can't imagine for a magical contract from a personification of law (as evil as it is) to work if Ileosa wasn't by the standards of cosmic bureaucracy the legitimate monarch.
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I don't think so. It is not normal for spouses to inherit that way (too much temptation).Well, Golarion has some differences in inheritance traditions of monarchs.
And yeah, Neolandus, or his heir to the role of seneschal, Marcus Endrin wouldn't choose Ileosa, preferring some distant relative of Eodred or a local noble.
I have the original CoCT. In those Marcus Endrin was never the seneshal. Neolandis' fate was unknown but he wasn't missing for very long. Did the hardback change that?
Of course Illeosa was clever. She was legitamately regent during her husband's illness. She was the de facto ruler, but as soon as Neolandis reappears and denounces her she was no longer the legitmate one.
How long Neolandis is missing for is exactly how long it takes for the PC to free him from the rakshasas prison and get him reinstalled as seneshal (that, realistically, cannot happen until the queen has been dealt with). An important thing to remember is Neolandis has to stay missing until the Ileosa is dealt with. If it becomes public knowledge he has been found (or has returned to his post) Ileosa will simply have him killed. The timing is completely up to your designs on time flow, and how effective the PC are. You could get there in a mere couple months of game time if you want to play it that way, or years if you prefer to drag out the game time.
For instance, in my game, we are 13 game days in and have only done the Old Fishery and 7 of the events in "A city gone mad" (5 game sessions). I anticipate that by time the PC free Neolandis from the prison it will be 3 or 4 months he has been missing. How long until they have dealt with the queen and get him reinstalled as seneshal could be up to a year.
Your right, Marcos Endrin was not seneshal in the original or the updated hardcover. That does not mean that a GM could not change the story for that to happen. The beauty of Pathfinder is once the adventure is in your hands you are free to alter how you see fit. There are no rules that say you have to run an adventure path as written.
[edit]Ashkar beat me to it...[/edit]
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In my game Neolandis returned at the start of the last module, as one of the leaders of the revolt against the Queen, giving legitamany to the revolt by his denunciation of Illeosa. He was protected by the PCs, but of course the Queen was absent.
No system of inherited power would work if spouses could succeed, the temptation to murder would be too great for any lord to marry.
Devils may be lawful, but like paladins they don't have to respect local laws that go against what they believe are greater laws. For devils "might makes right" is such a law. The law against not murdering the king is certainly one she broke which they have no problem with ignoring according to the AP. Illeosa becoming the de facto ruler with the might to back it up would be sufficient. That has often worked in the real world too.
Obviously it is your game and you can run it as you like.
I agree, Neolandis returns at the beginning of the last book. But to be public about it just to give the rebellion legitimacy is his death warrant. The rebellion does not need to be legitimate, it will have the support of the people and that is all it needs. They just need Neolandis alive at the end to make legitimate the successor to Ileosa.
The Queen maybe absent from Korvosa, but she is not in a vacuum (sending spell is awesome). Neolandis publicly denouncing her will get back to her (for that matter the sim would likely take steps). If the players did that in my game, the response would be:
1. Inform the Queen
2. Queen orders his death
3. Sermignatto greater scry
4. Serignatto greater teleports to Neolandis when he is alone
5. Serignatto kills the 5th level Neolandis in one round, two on the outside if he rolls really, really, really badly.
6. Serignatto greater teleports home
7. Rinse and repeat if they raise Neolandis from the dead.
8. Eventually he will make Neolandis' death permanent.
Using your argument about succession, why would the lord even have children? They are just as likely to murder for power as a spouse would. Lots of examples of this in the real world.
Anyway, not arguing with you, just pointing out the flip side to your coin.
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No system of inherited power would work if spouses could succeed, the temptation to murder would be too great for any lord to marry.
As Olmac points out, the same argument applies to having children - or letting relatives survive. Granted, there are plenty of cases in history where dynastic squabbles arose, leaving the sovereign to kill or threaten relatives into submission (whether their claim was legit or non-). Yet in most cases in history, the sovereign doesn't avoid having children and doesn't murder all of the current branches of his family tree. The same social and political forces that prevent children, siblings, and cousins from murdering or usurping the reigning sovereign would apply equally to spouses.
^Part one does a good job of summarizing how corruption develops, and part two does a good job of summarizing how dynastic rule remains so prevalent.
^Come to think of it, those videos do a decent job of explaining the persistence of Evil rule -- especially Lawful Evil, but also the other varieties.